beginner: save for the tap dancing set up or the axe-fx set up?

Don't believe in that bull about "justifying" the Axe with appropriate skill. The Axe is for everyone, not just the veterans. I started out the same way as you did: picking up the guitar first when I was 18 (I'm 27 now, btw).

Back then, I was a poor university student; I worked at a factory, doing tedious assembly jobs when everyone else around me was enjoying their holidays. Of course, they got what in germany is called "Bafög" (Federal Law on Support in Education), while my family was just above the required income treshold, so I didn't got any free tax money shoved up my ass.
I only had a cheap 500$ combo amp and mediocre guitar at that time. I had to make a decision: endlessly buying and selling cheap stuff until I find what I need or just cut the middleman and go pricey on the Axe.
Long story short: I saved up the money and bought that friggin' thing. And I never regretted it. If you do the maths, you will notice that one quality amp and a collection of pedals and cables is already enough to pay for an Axe - especially if you want a good delay and reverb - this shit is expensive as hell.
After my next payday, I invested into the MFC. I sold my Marshall combo and got some cheap FRFR monitors and a small mixer.

The Axe is pure quality of life; you never have issues with cables anymore (I always chuckle when a stage guitarist goes into "shit, no sound! ... gonna check all of my 20 patch-cables for loose contacts now!" mode), no more amp carrying, no more volume issues. And; if you use your own monitors: consistent sound everywhere.

If anything, the Axe will encourage you to learn faster and practice harder. It did so for me. The Axe is kind of like a gym contract: when you've bought it, you will just do it until you feel it paid off ... because you invested a ton of money into this. You won't let that go to waste. Also, it made me learn alot about amps and electrics involved. It kind of makes you the stand-in band technician.

Also, the Axe can make even the cheapest guitar sound decent. This has been proven numerous times. To me, a good amp is equally important as a good guitar. If you neither have a good guitar nor a good amp, there's no "go-to" solution what has more priority imho.
If you really feel like your guitar is limiting you, get a PRS SE. You simply can not get more guitar for your money. And don't waste your money on equipment you will end up selling later at a fraction of the initial price. Get the Axe, you've been playing for four years now; I'm pretty sure that you know by now that this hobby will last.


Some advice, though:
1) take the II, not the XL. The extra features are mostly for heavy-users.
2) Take a cheap Behringer FCB1010 midi board (if possible, buy used!). It requires a little bit more of programming than the MFC, but it's way cheaper and basicly does the same. Plus it comes with 2 in-built expression pedals, so you win twice. If you don't like tap-dancing, chances are the only feature you will ever use is preset and scene switching. Both can be done with the FCB just fine. An alternative is the http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/effects/midimouse.html ... it allows only preset up/down, but this already goes a long way.
3) I highly suggest to go FRFR (instead of power+cab) and don't miss out on the opportunities that come with FRFR. Especially for beginners, it's great to have monitors and a mixing desk available you can use if a venue doesn't have their own PA-system. It's just the more flexible solution.
4) Get quality headphones. Best investment of your life. You will want to use (comfortable!) Headphones at home to decouple your "acoustic" guitar sound from your perceived sound. Plus, it doesn't annoy neighbours that much.
 
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I've had more tap dancing mega boards than the National Ballet. I went to the Axe-FX and never looked back for a second. FAR more versatile and you'll save your back a lot of pain (and cabling/velcro avalanches!)
 
martijne said:
At home I play through small studio monitors Roland MA15D. With band rehearsal I played through any guitar amps FX returns and through PA's and that works too. I think I will get a second hand monitor or FRFR from Alto or some other budget-to midrange brand.
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To follow up: I found a second hand Alto Pro TS110 for €175,- only. Perfect for band rehearsal at the moment. Have you seen the budget FRFR thread at http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/22007-whats-best-budget-frfr.html
 
I just want to say if I hadn't had the 25 years experience of buying amps and pedals and rack gear and playing them, I would have never learned what I know about tone and effects, and I think the Axe FX II would be completely overwhelming.

While yes the Axe FX II is not above a beginner, if you have no experience with the real thing it won't be an easy thing to just jump into. I'm not saying it will be impossible.
 
When I started playing guitar in high school, I got a digitech RP20 mostly because "it had all the effects and sounds in it." At that point, I couldn't even discern the sound difference between the neck and bridge pickups.

All I did was play around with the factory presets that's sounded close to what I wanted. I then started editing them to make the effects do what I want. I'm pretty sure I also turned the gain on my amp sims all the way up ;)

I'm sure it sounded absolutely horrible! It was around $900 back in 1994, which seemed pretty expensive at the time. Regardless of how bad it sounded, I learned a lot about effects and amp sounds and controls.

Then the POD came out and I started to learn about real amps and different types via their manual and other literature describing classics like jtm45, recto, bassman, etc. I swear I could hear the differences in that POD :)

Then over the years I was fortunate enough to try and buy/sell a real bassman, JSX, then a Roadster, Stilletto and Diezel. By then, I knew a bit more about effects integration, amp settings, etc. I got a G-System for my main roadster rig and easily set it up. (12 cables!!!)

When I got my first Axe Ultra in 2007, I felt a bit overwhelmed with all the different amps and controls even after all that experience. But it forced me to learn even more about real amps, strange as it sounds.

I personally could not imagine starting with the Axe as my first guitar amp/rig. It's a bit like starting with a fully automatic Uzi as your first firearm at a shooting range- the basics are there, but maybe a single shot rifle would be a better choice :)

I'm sure I would have done what I did with the RP20 had I started with an Axe. I think the main thing though is make sure you take the time to learn, take notes, and then learn some more about real amps, effects and what the controls do and why. Signal path and routing is very easy for me, but mostly because I've wired physical crazy rigs and made my mistakes there with the physical limitations, thus learning what can and cannot be done. Sometimes digital has too many options which may "work" yet are completely wrong.

I always say there are no rules in music, just suggestions (a few exceptions of course, mostly dealing with electricity!) so if you do get one, have at it. :) But be prepared for some confusion and hard work.
 
Hold off on the Axe Fx. I disagree with a few guys here, that while there are amazing benefits to the Axe Fx, I say, start small, for 2 reasons:

1) you don't want to be the guy with crazy awesome gear, with beginner skill. I think it's a lack of self-respect IMHO

2) there's still something special about a good, small amp, like a Blues Junior. It's a great journey to get to know a single amp really well- I still have my first amp- it sound great, even though I thought differently back then (amp was great- my playing was bad).

There's no rule that you have to wait until you're a shredder to buy one. All I'm saying is that the journey of growing in knowledge and skill with real gear is something I'll always be grateful for.
 
If you have the money why not? Buy an XL+ and an MFC-101 and enjoy the best! There are no computers for beginners, you use them to the best of your abilities.
 
Guitars amps and pedals cant make you a good guitarist, but it sure as hell doesn't make you worse

if you have the money buy buy buy, sure you wont be the best guitarist in the world straight away, but you'll learn to make use of good gear, and that's never a bad thing

Analogy good ingredients doesn't make something taste good, a good recipe does. however if you have a good recipe, good ingredients are going to make it taste better
 
Zwiebelchen said:
Don't believe in that bull about "justifying" the Axe with appropriate skill. The Axe is for everyone, not just the veterans. I started out the same way as you did: picking up the guitar first when I was 18 (I'm 27 now, btw).
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I don't think anyone's trying to 'justify' it or imply that the Axe-FX is only appropriate for certain skill levels, for God's sake, I'm primarily a bar hack and I love the damn thing.

I DO think, based on the OP that there are much better ways for him to spend his money at this moment.

Seriously, I'm as much of a fan of these little evil black boxes as much as anyone else, but just because anyone can use them doesn't mean they're appropriate for everyone.
Re-read the OP, he's talking about the fact that he's both a beginner and also almost two full years of hardcore saving to be able to afford an Axe-FX.

Dude needs a decent combo amp, a guitar setup and a bunch of lessons.
That's neither a slight towards him, the Axe-FX or in any way a negative comment of any sort to anyone involved.
 
EvilPhish said:
I don't think anyone's trying to 'justify' it or imply that the Axe-FX is only appropriate for certain skill levels, for God's sake, I'm primarily a bar hack and I love the damn thing.

I DO think, based on the OP that there are much better ways for him to spend his money at this moment.

Seriously, I'm as much of a fan of these little evil black boxes as much as anyone else, but just because anyone can use them doesn't mean they're appropriate for everyone.
Re-read the OP, he's talking about the fact that he's both a beginner and also almost two full years of hardcore saving to be able to afford an Axe-FX.

Dude needs a decent combo amp, a guitar setup and a bunch of lessons.
That's neither a slight towards him, the Axe-FX or in any way a negative comment of any sort to anyone involved.
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He's been playing guitar for over 10 years, according to the OP (only 4 years electric, but meh, guitar is guitar is guitar). He's probably much better than he would acknowledge to himself. At least I haven't seen anyone play guitar for 10 years, acoustic or not, who wouldn't be able to play some decent rhythm guitar in a local punk band.

If it takes two years to collect the money to purchase one unit? So what? If that motivates him to practice harder, it's a good thing. What's the worst case scenario? That he saves all that money and then ends up not buying the Axe anymore? I think there's worse stuff that can happen in life than having 2 grand on your bank account.
 
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