BBE Maximizer effect?

steadystate said:
The OP asked for suggestions as to how to simulate the effect because he likes it. So what does he get in response? "The product sucks. Kill it. Burn it. Bury it." Followed by flat out incorrect explanations of how it functions. Not helpful.
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If we were talking about anything but a BBE, I'd agree with you. As it is, he was done a huge favor. It's like a friend coming to you and saying "Hey, I have been thinking about Heroin. Know where I can get some?". LOL.
 
zenaxe said:
If we were talking about anything but a BBE, I'd agree with you. As it is, he was done a huge favor. It's like a friend coming to you and saying "Hey, I have been thinking about Heroin. Know where I can get some?". LOL.
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Plus one. It may not be the answer he was looking for but it is the BEST advice for his tone we can give.
 
steadystate said:
I've found the BBE to work wonders if it is used on appropriate program material and speakers. It degraded the sound when using high fidelity program material through a pair of high end studio monitors. But when I used it on an album made in the early 70s through a pair of small Electro Voice speakers, the improvement in fidelity was astonishing. The BBE made the EVs sound like a totally different pair of speakers. HUGE improvement. I think the sweeping generalizations on this thread are worthless.
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You have done no testing and have an opinion.

Could it be the system/ material you were listening need some eq correction?

What did the analysis of the material/system reveal before adding the BBE?

Could an EQ be used for a similar if not better result? Most likely.

About 5 years ago I spent an entire day in a studio with an acoustitician looking at the phase distortions, frequency response, delayed harmonics etc...

The BBE Destroys your signal.

Are you also aware the entire delay section of the pedal is an "average" found to be "consistent" . The thing is it's not even close in real world tests to being consistent across the spectrum.

A long winded way of saying , my opinion is based on real science and not a generalization.

If you can't even explain what the unit does how can you claim it's better? The subjectivity of your ears? Too much psychology in play there. Inaccurate and untrustworthy.

Yes I said it; you cannot just trust your ears. Given the myriad of variables to do so is foolish.

But what do I know, I rely on data...
 
This video does not show exactly how the unit functions. This video doesn't apply program material. This is a guy jerking off with a noise generator and frequency analyzer, drawing conclusions based on flawed method. The bypass obviously sucks and is intended to deceive you into thinking that the signal is lacking without the unit engaged (which might be enough on its own to discourage purchase). But the unit's high and low cut/boost are dependent on the program material and can only be judged by listening to them with specific program material and speakers. Also, the frequency dependent delay makes far more difference on some material/speakers than on others. I've heard the unit improve the performance of a system dramatically. I've heard the same unit make a better system sound worse. Looking at some graphs some guy posted on Youtube is meaningless. The OP likes the way it sounds with his system. He is just as correct as everyone who hates it. And FWIW, I'm not talking about the pedal. I've never used it. I'm talking about the rack version.
 
Chris's video above shows exactly why a lot of people dislike it.

Notes: It's not true bypass. In fact, it is negatively affects the bass frequencies up to about 300Hz with the bypass switch engaged. What this means is that the only true bypass with the device is not comparable to engaging the bypass button. You need to plug it out of the chain to bypass.

When the controls are used they effectively act as a dynamic EQ. The phase of the signal is changed but this is true of any non-linear phase EQ. The midrange will be (effectively) reduced, but as to whether this is a good or a bad thing is subjective and dependent on circumstance. For instance, I remember 80's guitar tones where the more scooped the better. Also, the lack of mid in your guitar will not fight against the intelligibility of the vocal and may work well for rhythm tones. For lead tones, not so much. Here, the solo takes the place of the vocal in the midrange and your lead tone may not punch through the full band mix.

To the OP: If you do this and still like the colouration of the device in a live situation and over a long time period, then go for it. Just be aware of it.

You could theoretically achieve the same results using a mulitiband EQ and compressor/enhancer as a dynamic equaliser.

EDIT: That last bit was meant to say "...an EQ and multiband compressor/enhancer...."
 
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Moltenmetalburn said:
You have done no testing and have an opinion.

Could it be the system/ material you were listening need some eq correction?

What did the analysis of the material/system reveal before adding the BBE?

Could an EQ be used for a similar if not better result? Most likely.

About 5 years ago I spent an entire day in a studio with an acoustitician looking at the phase distortions, frequency response, delayed harmonics etc...

The BBE Destroys your signal.

Are you also aware the entire delay section of the pedal is an "average" found to be "consistent" . The thing is it's not even close in real world tests to being consistent across the spectrum.

A long winded way of saying , my opinion is based on real science and not a generalization.

If you can't even explain what the unit does how can you claim it's better? The subjectivity of your ears? Too much psychology in play there. Inaccurate and untrustworthy.

Yes I said it; you cannot just trust your ears. Given the myriad of variables to do so is foolish.

But what do I know, I rely on data...
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I have done testing. With my ears. Despite your advice, I will still trust my ears as the ultimate judge of what sounds better to me. If my ears tell me it sounds better, but a graph tells me it doesn't, that means it doesn't? And yes, I tried standard eq and could not even come close to achieving as pleasing a result on my smaller monitors. I am aware (as my previous post states) that the delay is not "consistent" across the spectrum. It is divided into three bands, with the lows and mids having their own delay times. It works well with certain systems, mostly with systems that do need some eq correction. The generalizations I am referring to are those saying that the unit sounds horrible on everything and should never be considered. I disagree. I enjoyed listening to music on my cheaper speakers with this unit. Have fun listening to your data.
 
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steadystate said:
I have done testing. With my ears. Despite your advice, I will still trust my ears as the ultimate judge of what sounds better to me. If my ears tell me it sounds better, but a graph tells me it doesn't, that means it doesn't? And yes, I tried standard eq and could not even come close to achieving as pleasing a result on my smaller monitors. I am aware (as my previous post states) that the delay is not "consistent" across the spectrum. It is divided into three bands, with the lows and mids having their own delay times. It works well with certain systems, mostly with systems that do need some eq correction. The generalizations I am referring to are those saying that the unit sounds horrible on everything and should never be considered. I disagree. I enjoyed listening to music on my cheaper speakers with this unit. Have fun listening to your data.
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I appreciate everyones comments and advice both positive and negative.I use the rackmount version going only to the power amp and real cabs.I guess the better question to ask would be is there a way to make my cabs sound as good or the same as FOH.If not then maybe I should invest in a Matrix 212 FRFR cab.I tried one at Axefest and it sounded incredible.I am very happy with my sound to FOH,just doesn't sound as good coming through the Marshall cabs.It isn't horrible and I could live with it,just wanting to improve it.Any help is appreciated
 
I'm with SteadyState here.

Okay to post your opinions on it, but if the OP likes it, then assist or don't waste time in this thread. He's got it in his chain, so it's working for him.

(And yes, my opinion is that they have an initial 'sounds good!' thing going for it, then the more I played with it, the less I liked it. It sounds good by itself, but when you start playing with mids, it sounds like you're trying to cover all available frequencies at once...too much.)
 
steadystate said:
But the unit's high and low cut/boost are dependent on the program material and can only be judged by listening to them with specific program material and speakers.
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so you're saying it may sound good with Backstreet Boys, but not 'NSync?
 
I don't think the BBE could make either of those sound worse. Interpret that as you wish. It radically helped many old classic rock recordings through Electro Voice S40s (better than any eq I tried). It hurt many modern recordings through JBL 4210s.
 
sgilsinger said:
I appreciate everyones comments and advice both positive and negative.I use the rackmount version going only to the power amp and real cabs.I guess the better question to ask would be is there a way to make my cabs sound as good or the same as FOH.If not then maybe I should invest in a Matrix 212 FRFR cab.I tried one at Axefest and it sounded incredible.I am very happy with my sound to FOH,just doesn't sound as good coming through the Marshall cabs.It isn't horrible and I could live with it,just wanting to improve it.Any help is appreciated
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It is worth bearing in mind that Axefest is about promotion. If Matrix were there then you can bet whatever was plugged into the FR212 had been rigorously optimized for the purpose. That means a lot of time spent matching the presets to the cab, probably at specific volumes.
This is not a dig at Matrix btw., just a word of caution if you are intending (as I am in the near future) to do so; getting great gear does not necessarily equal great tone!
Patience, perseverance, experimentation and trusting your ears are requirements!
 
FirstMM said:
It is worth bearing in mind that Axefest is about promotion. If Matrix were there then you can bet whatever was plugged into the FR212 had been rigorously optimized for the purpose. That means a lot of time spent matching the presets to the cab, probably at specific volumes.
This is not a dig at Matrix btw., just a word of caution if you are intending (as I am in the near future) to do so; getting great gear does not necessarily equal great tone!
Patience, perseverance, experimentation and trusting your ears are requirements!
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While that may be true,I compared many cabs at AxeFest and I think the Matrix 212FRFR was far better sounding than the others.Also Frctal uses their equipment and endorses it,so I don't believe they would be doing so if they weren't getting great results.
 
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