Bass through the Atomic Amps cabs?

B

barrymclark

Inspired
Hello all.

Anyone here use the Axe-FX for bass? Anyone here use it for bass throught he Atomic Amps cabs?

I assume it will sound ok since they are full range cabs.... just curious. I'd rather ask than assume.

Thanks!
 
I wouldn't want to be the one to tell you that it is a bad idea, but it really depends on the volume you need. It is my *guess* that the Atomics are more or less tuned to work well with guitars rather than bass. This by itself does not mean you cannot use it for bass, but the demands of the fundamental low notes of the bass guitar spectrum put a lot more stress on an amp/speaker (generally speaking) than would your typical 6 string. (7 or 8 string with drop tunings might be a little different story, but you get the idea). Also, it is JMO that the AxeFx/Atomic products are developed with guitar in mind first and foremost. Even though there is an SVT model and a few bass cab sims in the AxeFx, those bass features are clearly not the primary focus of their products, and there has not been a lot of "bass specific" development lately (I wish...).

I use the AxeFx for bass and I love it, but I'm using a helluva lot more horsepower as a speaker system....but then again... I LOVE IT LOUD!!! (LOL)

You can try it and see how it sounds, but I'd be very mindful to not push them beyond their limits, especially in a loud stage environment. Curious to hear how you make out.
 
Ah. Ok. My understanding was this was a full range cabinet which what bass cabs are.

My bad. Thanks!


...and believe me, I know the dangers of an improper setup for application. :D Never done it... but I have seen it!


Is there an honest full-range powered cab that you would recommend? It would basically act as a portable PA system for me.

I am not too concerned with it being overpowered for guitar, given what I am wanting to use it for, the headroom is always a welcome thing.

The lighter and more portable... is always the better for me. :D I am just getting old and damn tired of carrying 'refrigerators' around. haha.
 
Well, this is from the Atomic Amplifiers web site spec sheet:

Full Range Guitar Amp and Personal Monitor. Ideal for the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx and other tone processors/amp modelers/virtual amp systems. Acoustic Guitar, Electric Violin, Keyboards/Organs/Electric Pianos/Synthesizers, Bass/Stick, Steel guitar, Vibraphone, Singer/Songwriter gigs, General Sound Reinforcement, Loopers, Backing Tracks, DJing, and more.
Click to expand...

Again, I wouldn't say that you can't use it, and clearly Atomic does list "Bass/Stick" as an application source for their products. At around $800US for a powered 12" speaker with 1" tweeter/4" horn, there are a lot of bona-fide PA speakers out there that can compete.

That said, this is what I did, and why:

I got tired of lugging my full SVT Classic all tube head w/companion 8x10" cabinet. The AxeFx solved my processor/preamp dilemma (very nicely). As for the speakers, I settled on a pair of 15" coaxial speakers (Ciare), each loaded into its own lightweight cabinet (ported, made by Dr. Bass in N. Carolina - PM if you consider any business with them), and powered by a light weight Crown XLS2500 (which has a built in crossover mode: ch1= low, ch2 = highs; necessary to separately power the low and high components of the coaxial speakers - mono, no stereo in this context). This is a much more customized solution, and actually a little bit on the pricey side (almost $2000US in all), but it is very easy to move, modular (flexible), and very light weight (this was a big consideration for me). I can now do any gig I want, big or small, and my tone and setup don't need to change because of the size of venue or type of gig I'm doing. Works great for me.

I like that the coaxial speakers convey more of the typical "bass speaker/bass cabinet" feel to them, as the sound spectrum is not physically separated as with a full-range PA speaker cabinet with separate lo/mid/hi components (bass freqs are at my knees, mids at my waist, highs at my shoulders), so the sound is much more cohesive and "real" sounding in close proximity and as you move around the cabinets. I can imaging that a good coaxial 12" speaker might do just as well. The 15" coax do need a bit of EQ shaping, but no big deal and they sound very nice IMO.

I surely could have gotten a pair of active Mackie HD1531 speakers (96 lbs per cab) for the same $$$, but it would be a pain in the butt carrying those around in my compact vehicle. Again, for me personally, the ability to keep this system flexible and portable was VERY important. Otherwise, there are a lot of options out there.

I hope this helps.
 
jimfist said:
Well, this is from the Atomic Amplifiers web site spec sheet:



Again, I wouldn't say that you can't use it, and clearly Atomic does list "Bass/Stick" as an application source for their products. At around $800US for a powered 12" speaker with 1" tweeter/4" horn, there are a lot of bona-fide PA speakers out there that can compete.

That said, this is what I did, and why:

I got tired of lugging my full SVT Classic all tube head w/companion 8x10" cabinet. The AxeFx solved my processor/preamp dilemma (very nicely). As for the speakers, I settled on a pair of 15" coaxial speakers (Ciare), each loaded into its own lightweight cabinet (ported, made by Dr. Bass in N. Carolina - PM if you consider any business with them), and powered by a light weight Crown XLS2500 (which has a built in crossover mode: ch1= low, ch2 = highs; necessary to separately power the low and high components of the coaxial speakers - mono, no stereo in this context). This is a much more customized solution, and actually a little bit on the pricey side (almost $2000US in all), but it is very easy to move, modular (flexible), and very light weight (this was a big consideration for me). I can now do any gig I want, big or small, and my tone and setup don't need to change because of the size of venue or type of gig I'm doing. Works great for me.

I like that the coaxial speakers convey more of the typical "bass speaker/bass cabinet" feel to them, as the sound spectrum is not physically separated as with a full-range PA speaker cabinet with separate lo/mid/hi components (bass freqs are at my knees, mids at my waist, highs at my shoulders), so the sound is much more cohesive and "real" sounding in close proximity and as you move around the cabinets. I can imaging that a good coaxial 12" speaker might do just as well. The 15" coax do need a bit of EQ shaping, but no big deal and they sound very nice IMO.

I surely could have gotten a pair of active Mackie HD1531 speakers (96 lbs per cab) for the same $$$, but it would be a pain in the butt carrying those around in my compact vehicle. Again, for me personally, the ability to keep this system flexible and portable was VERY important. Otherwise, there are a lot of options out there.

I hope this helps.
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It does indeed. I definitely appreciate the input. $2000 for a power amp/speaker setup isn't really much more than what I was thinking with getting two of the powered Atomic Amps powered cabs.

Do you use this same setup for guitar as well or just bass?
 
I am not a 6 string player, but I have worked with a guitarist who used this rig with the AxeFxII and we both thought it sounded very good. Certainly very clean and powerful, and with some minor EQ tweaks to adjust any "hot" frequencies, etc.

I designed this system to be used for any and all general "small PA" tasks. Would work great with a companion subwoofer. Mostly, though, I use it for my bass rig 90% of the time.
 
jimfist said:
I am not a 6 string player, but I have worked with a guitarist who used this rig with the AxeFxII and we both thought it sounded very good. Certainly very clean and powerful, and with some minor EQ tweaks to adjust any "hot" frequencies, etc.

I designed this system to be used for any and all general "small PA" tasks. Would work great with a companion subwoofer. Mostly, though, I use it for my bass rig 90% of the time.
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Understood. I don't typically use a crossover system for bass. Just whatever the speakers do is what I leave it at... occasionally used a tweeter but mostly left those flat. Therefore, I wouldn't really need that as an option but if it is there, that's fine too. Can this model amp more or less link the two channels? Not bridge at the output but send a single signal into, say, channel 1 to both speaker outs or is it strickly a stereo input amp? Couldn't really find anything on that. I'd like to just have one out going to my power amp and then the other for running to house.

Based on your answer, I believe I know what I will be doing. :D
 
Hi Jim, do you have any thoughts on using the EVM speakers I use for guitar (below), for bass. I've just got a new gig covering the bottom end - which I used to do years ago, and am very pleased to be getting back to.

I'm thinking of lacing each one into a 2x12 cab containing JBL E120's (classic, heavy, ex-pa speakers with a bit of a full range....) It sounds OK in practice, the cabs are really heavy, ported and well-made. But I'm not sure about at volume. The Matrix power amp seems really good for bass.
 
Hugomack, I don't have any hands-on experience with the EVM-12L, so I can't weigh in with anything based on first-hand experience. I will say, though, that IMO a 2x12 cabinet is perfectly viable for bass guitar. All I can say is try it out and if it works well, sounds good, and the amp is well within its safe operating range, then why not? What kind of music do you play, and how loud does it get on stage?
 
It's a function / dance band, so shouldn't be too loud on stage. Just fitting in with the drummer really, whose a bit of a jazzer.... I'm just concerned about blowing out the EVMs by using bass, for use when I'm playing guitar....?
 
Think I might hook up one side of the Matrix with the 2x12 E120's, and the other side with the two EVM 1x12 cabs.], then adjust the output on the Matrix with great care.
 
I just received my Axe-FX II, and I have an Atomic FRFR combo amp that I was using with my Pod. However, my band situation changed while I was on the Fractal waiting list. I mainly play bass in a piano-focused trio, but I switch off to play lead guitar on several songs. I do not want to bring two separate rigs for both bass & guitar, since stage space in our venues is already limited.

I was thinking about feeding the Axe-FX II outputs into a crossover, and sending the highs (guessing >80-120 Hz) to the Atomic FRFR and the lows to my Paul Jones Bass Flightcase combo. That way the normal guitar sound mostly goes to the Atomic, but the bass is effectively bi-amped between the Atomic and the PJB. Before I buy a crossover, does that sound reasonable? Thanks.
 
Maybe buy an adjustable cross-over, so you can shift the frequency as well as the volume between the Atomic and the PJB combo.

I've tried a much simpler method using just volume control, of turning up one side of my Matrix to send a lot into my 2x12 JBL E120's and much less into the EVM. I could chain two EVM cabs (for the high freqs) - which would be much safer! But I haven't worked out the impedance which would probably be OK as the Matrix doesn't seem to mind mismatches down to 4 ohms.
 
I saw someone at a show running bass through an Axe-Fx into a single Atomic cab. They were playing relatively low volume folk, so it worked out pretty perfectly. Sounded better than any other bass rig at that show, but not the best I've ever heard. I would be interested to see how much better the new CLR's or Matrix coaxials do with bass. I know there is a video on youtube of bass being played through the Matrix... but it doesn't really reveal too much.
 
I'm not a bass player, but I have a bass and can play it to some degree. Playing through the Axe-Fx II with two Reactor FRs sounds really good; huge, fat, warm, defined, undistorted.
 
Bass is strange. You'd think full range cabs would work OK, but they're not up to providing full-on powerful bass, and you risk blowing them - but fine if it's not at the "feeling it" sort of levels. I've tried using 15" three-way JBL powered monitors which didn't like it at all. My EVM's sound really great, but only up to modest volume levels. For a gig I put it through proper bass guitar cabs.

The Matrix is perfectly fine for bass, very powerful and clean (in my opinion ideal) and coupled with the Bassman or SV Bass (my preference) sounds great. Cab sims on sometimes or off - the 4x10 SV Bass is good and the 1x15 LA Bass is very deep. Cabs "Off" is a good ploy if it sounds a but muffled - to see what your own cabs sound like, as part of messing around to get the best sounding combination of everything you're using.
 
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I just thought of another option; why not the crossover (XVR) effect on the Axe-FX!

Let's say I connect OUT 1 L to my powered Atomic FR and OUT 1 R to my effects return on my bass combo. I can set the LEFT LOW PAN and RIGHT LOW PAN to full right and the LEFT HI PAN and RIGHT HI PAN to full left. That should put all of the low frequencies on the right output (bass combo) and all of the mid-to-high frequencies on the left output (Atomic FR). Then I can adjust the XOVER FREQ and mix volumes for the right blend between the two amps. I can also use the summed mono for OUT 2 only to go to the house. Time to experiment...
 
there are many options with the AxeFx for sure, only limited by your creativity and understanding of the effects blocks and routing. Much of the "bass dilemma" has to do with stage volume necessary from your bass amp, and if you need your stage amp to deliver the full fundamental bass tones in the room - as opposed to employing the FOH PA system to do the heavy lifting. IMO, if your stage volume is modest, and the PA can reinforce the bass, then you could probably get away with just one amp/cabinet (the atomic) IF you consider doing the following:

high pass filter (filter block) your bass presets above 100hz or perhaps higher, which will tax your amp and speaker less if they aren't burdened with having to reproduce the fundamental low notes at louder levels.

use compression! the MBC is a good tool for this purpose as it will allow you to compress the low frequencies independent of the mid and high freqs and really sculpt the sound to not only maximize volume, but protect your amp/speakers

OTOH, if you need serious volume with no PA support, then I doubt the atomic will be loud enough on it's own.
 
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