Bass gig with a FRFR speaker

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Namewastakendamn

Inspired
I have a gig coming up soon where I will be playing the bass. I’ve researched, but wanted to get the experts opinion since they seem to know more. Would I be able to get away with using a head rush or something similar with my FM3 obviously acting as my tone?
 
Bass guitar comes out of a full range speaker for the audience, so it should work. Don’t try to get too much sub-low-end out of a non sub-woofer though.
 
A Headrush what? Their 12" version is rated at -10 dB at 46Hz. Might not have the bass extension you need when playing... bass. Sweetwater is coyly silent about the frequency response of the 8" version.
 
So anything recommend for playing bass with the FM3 in a smallish venue? I’m so used to just amp and head, and haven’t giggled with any of my fractal units yet. I under stand guitar, just bass was my issue knowing the different sounds it would produce
 
Namewastakendamn said:
So anything recommend for playing bass with the FM3 in a smallish venue? I’m so used to just amp and head, and haven’t giggled with any of my fractal units yet. I under stand guitar, just bass was my issue knowing the different sounds it would produce
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That depends. Will you be in the house mix, or will your rig have to carry the load all by itself? If it's just so you can hear yourself, you might get by with a 12" or larger monitor. If you have to project to the whole house, consider a bass cab and power amp. Bass requires a lot of power in the low end, and not all general-purpose monitors are up to that.
 
Yeah I’m looking more into it. I think I’m just going to rent a bass cab combo and just stick to mixing with it on the FM3. Thanks for the advice.
 
Namewastakendamn said:
Yeah I’m looking more into it. I think I’m just going to rent a bass cab combo and just stick to mixing with it on the FM3. Thanks for the advice.
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That's a good choice, if your gig is coming up soon. I don't gig on bass enough to suggest a specific monitor.
 
I use Xitone 1x12 wedges for guitar with my Fractal products but I found it just didn't have enough "oomph" for bass. I had Mick at Xitone build me a custom 1x15 wedge a few years ago and it works great for bass. The only thing I'd change is to have a tweeter installed on it as the resulting tones are pretty dark, which I guess is OK if you're going for that old-school Motown vibe, but I usually like a little more presence in my bass tone. My double bass sounds fantastic through it, though.
 
Look at a QSC K-12. As long as you're not getting crazy with the low end it will work great. Use a HPF at around 40hz
 
How much are you relying on the FM3 as a bass preamp for the tone, ditto for cabinet sim IRs? If the answer is "not at all", then have at it with running the FM3 into a traditional bass rig/combo. This is actually a very practical thing to do if you have a bass amp that you already like the sound of.

If, on the other hand, you're looking for the entire "modeling experience" complete with amp modeling and cabinet simulations, then bass is really no different, using a Full Range speaker system just as guitarists do - EXCEPT FOR - the amplification for bass instruments are more demanding in terms of the extended low end, and the clean headroom provided by the amp (depending on playing style/technique). This generally translates into needing better performing FR speaker system, thus more cost. Traditional bass rigs do "bass amp things" with a lot more ease than modelers doing bass amp simulation into a FR speaker system.

Also, factor in if you're using a fully modeled bass rig for performance on a loud stage and/or when your stage rig is needed to carry the bass sound into the audience. You'll not only need gear that can keep up with these demands, but also you'll need to train your ears and skill in setting the modeled tone so that it sounds reasonably good at gig volume and doesn't fall apart. This is different than low-volume tone creation at home or otherwise. That god-of-thunder tone you created by yourself at home might just go to crap once it's competing with a loud drummer and guitar(s), and again, not to mention that this assumes your full range speaker system doesn't give you the finger and deny you good sounding headroom in the heat of this stage battle. Thus, as correctly suggested above, hi-pass filtering and also compression/limiting start playing a key role in keeping things together.

For quieter gigs, coffee houses, etc., it's actually pretty easy sending fully modeled bass to a typical PA speaker and having it sound reasonably good. If that's you, then no worries really, IMHO.
 
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jimfist said:
How much are you relying on the FM3 as a bass preamp for the tone, ditto for cabinet sim IRs? If the answer is "not at all", then have at it with running the FM3 into a traditional bass rig/combo. This is actually a very practical thing to do if you have a bass amp that you already like the sound of.

If, on the other hand, you're looking for the entire "modeling experience" complete with amp modeling and cabinet simulations, then bass is really no different, using a Full Range speaker system just as guitarists do - EXCEPT FOR - the amplification for bass instruments are more demanding in terms of the extended low end, and the clean headroom provided by the amp (depending on playing style/technique). This generally translates into needing better performing FR speaker system, thus more cost. Traditional bass rigs do "bass amp things" with a lot more ease than modelers doing bass amp simulation into a FR speaker system.

Also, factor in if you're using a fully modeled bass rig for performance on a loud stage and/or when your stage rig is needed to carry the bass sound into the audience. You'll not only need gear that can keep up with these demands, but also you'll need to train your ears and skill in setting the modeled tone so that it sounds reasonably good at gig volume and doesn't fall apart. This is different than low-volume tone creation at home or otherwise. That god-of-thunder tone you created by yourself at home might just go to crap once it's competing with a loud drummer and guitar(s), and again, not to mention that this assumes your full range speaker system doesn't give you the finger and deny you good sounding headroom in the heat of this stage battle. Thus, as correctly suggested above, hi-pass filtering and also compression/limiting start playing a key role in keeping things together.

For quieter gigs, coffee houses, etc., it's actually pretty sending fully modeled bass to a typical PA speaker and having it sound reasonably good. If that's you, then no worries really, IMHO.
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Thank you very much for this thought out response. I’m just going to pick up a separate bass rig as this was going to be something special and was just looking for an excuse to use the FM3.
 
As a bass player myself, I would and have used the FM3 (and previously AX8) for gigs going direct to FOH and all monitoring with IEMs. It's the perfect setup for that situation. If you are DI-ing to FOH and just need a stage monitor for yourself, a small wedge will get you through the gig but you may not be super happy. I wouldn't be unless it was a quieter setting like @jimfist mentioned above.

Any other situation, where anyone else needs to hear what's coming out of that speaker, I personally would use a regular bass amp that is designed and voiced for the oomph a bass requires within a band mix. I wouldn't even bother with a modeler/FRFR. Of course this all depends on what kind of music and venue you're playing. I'm just talking about typical pop/rock music with a loud-ish band.
 
Putting a monitor on the floor or in the corner can help with bass response, fwiw. I have used my alto 212 for bass in a pinch - it was ok. The xitone active wedge was ok too. But ideally going to house PA or whatever is best for direct.

A few years back I finally got a Quilter Bass Block and a lightweight 1x15 neo bass cab...takes up little room but always avail if I am needed on bass or if helping out at an open mic night. (hope those come back).
 
LizzyD said:
Any other situation, where anyone else needs to hear what's coming out of that speaker, I personally would use a regular bass amp that is designed and voiced for the oomph a bass requires within a band mix. I wouldn't even bother with a modeler/FRFR. Of course this all depends on what kind of music and venue you're playing. I'm just talking about typical pop/rock music with a loud-ish band.
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Yes, that's typically my gig: all types of rock, pop, R&B, dance, hard rock, metal, etc., and with players who always have been (and always will be) old-school rockers who like to air things out.

I've dialed in my bass tones using the Atomic CLR, but from there my stage needs can vary depending on the gig and size of stage & room.
One thing in my live rig which is indispensable is a powerful amp head with EQ: in other words, I'm using a regular bass head in order to easily tweak my modeled sounds to fit the gig. Again, the bigger and louder the gig in terms of stage volume, the more it becomes an issue.

I'll either use one or two full range cabinets (Atomic CLR passives, or custom built cabs w/15" full range coaxial 2-way speakers) depending on the gig. This way, whether I'm soft on stage or need be be loud, my tone doesn't suffer. Doing it this way ain't cheap, but I've committed to this method.

A regular bass amp would be more practical, and less expensive. LOL. But I do love the way my rigs sound.
 
I put in my years of hauling big 2000 watt rigs into clubs...it's all gone in favor of 1x12s and a lightweight head, always with FOH support. Or the aforementioned Fractal DI with IEMs - easiest load in ever, and I don't need anyone's help lifting!

I would do the same as you though, if I was building a bass rig around a modeler - with a power amp into a cab. And don't skimp on the power.

The bass player in my main band hauls his 100 lb. SVT head, going into a little 2x10. It's the only way to get THAT sound. ;)
 
jimfist said:
How much are you relying on the FM3 as a bass preamp for the tone, ditto for cabinet sim IRs? If the answer is "not at all", then have at it with running the FM3 into a traditional bass rig/combo. This is actually a very practical thing to do if you have a bass amp that you already like the sound of.

If, on the other hand, you're looking for the entire "modeling experience" complete with amp modeling and cabinet simulations, then bass is really no different, using a Full Range speaker system just as guitarists do - EXCEPT FOR - the amplification for bass instruments are more demanding in terms of the extended low end, and the clean headroom provided by the amp (depending on playing style/technique). This generally translates into needing better performing FR speaker system, thus more cost. Traditional bass rigs do "bass amp things" with a lot more ease than modelers doing bass amp simulation into a FR speaker system.

Also, factor in if you're using a fully modeled bass rig for performance on a loud stage and/or when your stage rig is needed to carry the bass sound into the audience. You'll not only need gear that can keep up with these demands, but also you'll need to train your ears and skill in setting the modeled tone so that it sounds reasonably good at gig volume and doesn't fall apart. This is different than low-volume tone creation at home or otherwise. That god-of-thunder tone you created by yourself at home might just go to crap once it's competing with a loud drummer and guitar(s), and again, not to mention that this assumes your full range speaker system doesn't give you the finger and deny you good sounding headroom in the heat of this stage battle. Thus, as correctly suggested above, hi-pass filtering and also compression/limiting start playing a key role in keeping things together.

For quieter gigs, coffee houses, etc., it's actually pretty sending fully modeled bass to a typical PA speaker and having it sound reasonably good. If that's you, then no worries really, IMHO.
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This.
 
When I use the AXEIII or FM3 for bass, I normally just play through IEMs, although running the bass through House monitors has worked well enough, too.
But on the very few occasions where I needed sound on stage, I simply used a Fender Rumble Amp. They are cheap, super light, loud, sound good, and when EQ'd properly, can give a flat enough response for your FM3 to provide the main color of the sound. Highly recommended in a situation like yours.
 
jclemensfl said:
When I use the AXEIII or FM3 for bass, I normally just play through IEMs, although running the bass through House monitors has worked well enough, too.
But on the very few occasions where I needed sound on stage, I simply used a Fender Rumble Amp. They are cheap, super light, loud, sound good, and when EQ'd properly, can give a flat enough response for your FM3 to provide the main color of the sound. Highly recommended in a situation like yours.
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That actually sounds like a brilliant idea. What all would I realistically need with the fender rumble amp with the FM3
 
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