Bass consistency

FWIW, I've always heard the term wolf tone to in regards to electric bass to mean an anomaly of the instrument where one or two notes are noticeably louder.

I have played bass for 30 yrs and have a nice orchestral quality double bass too :)
 
I'm losing my mind here. I can't for the life of me compress or mix my bass properly. I either lose the low end at parts or it jumps out at me and flubs. I can't seem to keep it level throughout. I've looked up several compression methods and toyed with different presets. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Have a listen.

[soundcloud][/soundcloud]

This doesn't sound particularly "bad", but I do hear some issues.

There are three issues I hear:
  1. The guitar, kick drum, and snare sound like they are compressed or limited to have no dynamics while the bass is playing very dynamically.
  2. Your bass tone seems to have everything going on in the sub 500 Hz frequency range but has no note definition in 1 kHz to 5 kHz range comparatively, so when you dynamically drop your playing volume versus heavily compressed other instruments in the mix, you disappear.
  3. The full frequency drums and guitar are leaving little room in the mix for your bass, especially so based upon the arrangement.
If you don't carve out a frequency niche for the bass in the mix out of the other instruments, no magic plug in, no compression side chaining trick, no magic EQ trick on your tone is going to fix it.

You can dynamically ride the fader of the bass track in the mix with automation, but then this is going to be a situation of ever increasing "more me" volume based on your tone, because undoubtedly that volume raise of your bass will masque either the drums and/or guitar.

First thing I always do when I check somebody's mix session of this genre is I solo the following tracks: Kick, Snare, Hat, and Bass. The volume balance should be that I can hear everything clearly of everything all those instruments are playing throughout the song. If I can't hear everything clearly where one instrument disappears for a bit, then I start making EQ cuts in the other instruments in order to let the missing sections through on the MIA instrument. Then I bring in the guitars one by one, check the volume balance and then decide what tracks need EQ cuts in order to for all the parts to be heard throughout the song. Rinse and repeat.

Once you have that frequency spectrum issue settled, then you start applying compression and other effects as icing on the cake. None of those things will truly solve basic EQ and volume balance issues. Think of a mix as a jigsaw puzzle and the instrumental parts as the pieces. Each needs a certain notch in them in order to interlock and show you a bigger picture. I learned that personally from Bob Both, who used to mix James Brown's stuff and the concept works with every genre of music I ever mixed.

Next thing is to look at your tone. As a bass player you should have definition to your notes in order to stick out. A lot of players kill those frequencies because they expose technique issues which yield string noise and and lack of dampening the non sounding strings. If you can have a certain amount of high frequency content in your tone, your notes will be more defined in the mix and less blob like.

Your amp block compression settings are very important and most players forget about them. When we play loud rock music with real bass amps, when we turn up, that amp is compressing us at a certain point to protect the cabinet drivers. Adjust the amp block compression settings so that it feels like a real life bass amp when you play, then EQ your bass mids, & treble accordingly. Get that feel of the amp right and then carve your tone.

Last thing is when you do your solo practices, practice while watching and plugged into a VU meter. You should be able to stay at a consistent level when switching strings and neck positions. It's a pain in the ass when you are first woodshedding this, but if you can master that, then any compression you apply to your tracks is enhancement of the tone rather than correcting technique.
 
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@dr bonkers good advice about building a mix.

I've been starting with the vocals lately, instead of the rhythm section. Just to make the LV the "star of the show". Same idea though. Every time I add a track to the mix, I make sure it fits.
 
I'm seeing a lot of good info here. I appreciate that. I just don't know where to begin. So here's this. I'm attaching my preset. Maybe you guys can see something that I could fix there that'd help? Also bare in mind that I'm connected via USB from the Axe FX 2 into my computer. I know DI is typical for recording bass. Also, I have no other way of recording. lol.

I've tried importing a song from Alice in Chains ("Stone" from their last album) and Pro Tools wouldn't let me do it. Probably due to copyright encryption. :( So running a high pass on that is a bust. But I'll keep working at this.
 

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I don't know if headphones are the best way to dial in bass tones. I just tried it and I feel like I'm not making any progress.

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I did side chain compression with the kick tho. I liked that result at least. But I'm still getting wolftones. And I can't play anywhere else on the neck because the song is in drop D and there's only one way I can play that riff on a 4 string bass. I dialed back the low and mid low knobs on the bass itself. But I feel like I got a whole new issue.

I should also add I went with this guys tone (with different cabs) because it's similar to what I was looking for.


I dialed it in with my headphones and it all sounded like I was making progress. Then I played it on my computer speakers and it sounded like shit.



Before you say "maybe it's your computer speakers," I play this where he's playing high notes on what sound like the low E string (tuned Eb I think) and it sounds exactly as you'd expect. I feel like I'm missing something that's right in front of me.
 
Sounds alright on headphones actually.
The kick is quite undefined though. I'm one of those people who like a nice present kick. Not so much a click but a bit of that.
 
Here's a question. What frequencies are bass guitars typically suppose to be in? I feel like Im piling on too much low end but not sure what low end.
 
Here's a question. What frequencies are bass guitars typically suppose to be in? I feel like Im piling on too much low end but not sure what low end.

For me, it's based on the song, arrangement, style, kick drum, low tom, and any low synth sounds.

The fundamental Q for me is... is the kick above or below the bass guitar.

Once you make that decision, then your EQ choices will be more apparent.
 
For me, it's based on the song, arrangement, style, kick drum, low tom, and any low synth sounds.

The fundamental Q for me is... is the kick above or below the bass guitar.

Once you make that decision, then your EQ choices will be more apparent.
What this man said is key.

Either the kick drum is the whale and the bass is the pilot fish when it comes to low end or the Bass it the whale and the kick drum is the pilot fish in terms of low end. Whether you listen to Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Cliff Burton-era Metallica, Iron Maiden, Journey, or Opeth, just hone in on the kick drum and bass guitar frequency interaction. One always takes the lead in the song and the other is jigsaw notched around it.

If the kick drum is low and rumbles, then the bass is shallow and more clicky or trebley.

If the bass guitar is low and rumbles, then the kick drum is more shallow and clicky to allow it frequency space to not conflict with each other.

The same is true with the snare and low mids of the bass and guitar. Also it's true of the guitar and bass.

I remember reading an interview with Mutt Lange years ago where he said he typically hi passed all the guitars at around 150 Hz to clean things up for the bass and drums. If you listen to his mixes whether AC-DC, Def Leppard's Pyromania, or even any of the Shania Twain stuff, you can hear his approach in action and it works for the artists he works with.

When I gave you the mixing tips above, I am sorry I left out that the last instruments you should try to fit into the mix are Toms and Overheads.

This is because Toms & Overheads take up a ton of frequency space that otherwise the parts of any vocal, bass, guitar and other drum tracks need to be heard, so the they need to be notched and high passed very strategically when getting a volume balance in the mix.

EDit: BTW - I forgot to say I listened to the revised clip and it sounds much better. Your chief culprit to my ears now is that the Guitars are masking the bass. Because of the register the bass is playing in for this arrangement, the guitars can't have all the prevalent fat low end in them. They need to go on a diet. Listent ot the isolated tracks of Van Halen's unchained and then listen to the full mix. The low end that you think is in the guitar is actually in the bass:
versus

versus

versus the full track that you can find on YouTube as an example.
 
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Another song with those "big" mesa recto type guitar sounds similar to your track is the Nickelback song, Animals. I am not saying your band sounds like Nickelback in the very least, I am just trying to find fat sounding guitars to show how they are treated in a mix. The way the Nickelback song was written could have been a total mess to mix if the decisions @barhrecords and I described earlier in the thread weren't made.

Listen to the track without the guitars:

Now listen to the track with the guitars inserted and you will see how rolled off they are since the bass is really carrying the low end.
 
Another suggestion - have you got weird resonating frequencies in your listening environment?

If you have the facility try playing a sin wave at a consistent volume (using a soft synth or something) gradually moving up the lower registers. If you get notes that suddenly 'jump out' then this is a problem with your listening environment and could explain why you don't perceive the issue on headphones. It's quite common and I know my room suffers from this a bit.

I did find a sound file to test this on the web a while back - I think it was from one of those companies that makes bass traps.
 
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