AXE3 Channel switching, audio dropout?

[Boogiem]

I have some questions about seamless and almost seamless channel switching an the AX3.
#1:Can anyone that actually have an AX3 (not anyone who just have heard from someone.) confirm if there will be any audio droput or not when changing just the amp channels in the a preset ?
#2: Will there be any audio dropouts when changing both amp and cab channels i a preset?

I´m talking about a dry preset with just amp & cab, and no reverb or delay to mask audio dropouts.

 

[bdrepko]

It is not totally seamless. There is a small dropout, but much less than on the previous AXEII and AX8. Even tube amps will have a small latency when changing channels.

 

[Boogiem]

It is not totally seamless. There is a small dropout, but much less than on the previous AXEII and AX8. Even tube amps will have a small latency when changing channels.

I used to have a setup with an analog amp switcher and two amps, with no audio dropouts.

I thought the point with channels was to change between two amps ( ex, Fender clean and a dirty Marshall) with no audio dropouts
and seamless switching within the same preset.
Whats the point with channels if there still if a audio dropout?
On my Kemper I can change presets/rigs with no audio dropouts and reverb and delay spillover between presets, so I was hoping that AX3 with channel switching within a preset would do the same thing, just with better effects and amp sounds.

I´m not trying to talk AX3 down, just hoping that it can do things that my Kemper can + a lot more, thats why I'm on the waiting list for AX3 at G66.

If you set up two amp blocks in a preset and use scenes to mute and un-mute each amp block will that get seamless switching without audio dropouts?

 

[bdrepko]

If you set up two amp blocks in a preset and use scenes to mute and un-mute each amp block will that get seamless switching without audio dropouts?

I have not tried that so I cant comment on it. But previously I bought an AX8 and then went to the Helix because the gap when changing presets and blocks was too much for me. With the AXE3 I don't find I have that problem. If I remember correctly the gap is approximately 30-40ms.

 

[Smittefar]

Maybe on an AX8. On AxeIII, switching times of 30 ms has been shown. That's seamless to me.

If you switch between parallel amp blocks, it is completely seamless.

 

[lqdsnddist]

What do people play where you need continuous sound to such an extent “drop outs” are a problem?

I just can’t understand this issue. I’m not dismissing it, just can’t understand it.

I’ve had channel switching amps, pedals etc for ages and there is always a noticeable change, how long I can’t say, but I don’t notice anything different on my III or on my II.

It’s like okay, I’m going to kick in a pedal or change channel for a given part of the song. How does a delay of like 1/10th of a second matter ?

I’m probably going to be off by several seconds even hitting the pedal either way so how does sub second timing matter ?

Especially in the context of a band mix how would anyone hear this ? The dropout time is less than the duration between the notes.

Do audience members come up and ask for 1/8000th of their $5 cover back because they paid to hear the guitar the whole time and there was 35ms of dropout so they feel ripped off?

If there is a band out there who is so well timed that every member is in sync down to the millisecond I’d love to hear them, and also try to hear an audio dropout in the mix.

 

[Boogiem]

What do people play where you need continuous sound to such an extent “drop outs” are a problem?

I just can’t understand this issue. I’m not dismissing it, just can’t understand it.

I’ve had channel switching amps, pedals etc for ages and there is always a noticeable change, how long I can’t say, but I don’t notice anything different on my III or on my II.

It’s like okay, I’m going to kick in a pedal or change channel for a given part of the song. How does a delay of like 1/10th of a second matter ?

I’m probably going to be off by several seconds even hitting the pedal either way so how does sub second timing matter ?

Especially in the context of a band mix how would anyone hear this ? The dropout time is less than the duration between the notes.

Do audience members come up and ask for 1/8000th of their $5 cover back because they paid to hear the guitar the whole time and there was 35ms of dropout so they feel ripped off?

If there is a band out there who is so well timed that every member is in sync down to the millisecond I’d love to hear them, and also try to hear an audio dropout in the mix.

Hi Iqdsnddist, Here some answer for you..
I like to change amp type sound when i do solos, I often start with a clean/breakup amp and change over to more saturated amps later in the solo, mostly in the end on that last high hanging high notes. Thats why I dont like audio dropouts.
Sometimes I kick in a drive pedal or a booster, but sometimes I like to change the sound completely. Thats why, I like to change amp.
My Kemper do that seamless but my AX8 do not, thats why I ask for how the AX3 works as it is the new flagship from Fractal.
No I dont think the audience would ask to get money back for audio dropouts, or if you play on a China Strat and a broken old Peavey amp.
The tones are mostly in your hands, but its nice to know what I´m going to buy if you spend as much as a AX3 cost.
I ask kindly questions and I do not have intensions of being arrogant, hope the same are for you Sir.

 

[bdrepko]

What do people play where you need continuous sound to such an extent “drop outs” are a problem?

I just can’t understand this issue. I’m not dismissing it, just can’t understand it.

I’ve had channel switching amps, pedals etc for ages and there is always a noticeable change, how long I can’t say, but I don’t notice anything different on my III or on my II.

It’s like okay, I’m going to kick in a pedal or change channel for a given part of the song. How does a delay of like 1/10th of a second matter ?

I’m probably going to be off by several seconds even hitting the pedal either way so how does sub second timing matter ?

Especially in the context of a band mix how would anyone hear this ? The dropout time is less than the duration between the notes.

Do audience members come up and ask for 1/8000th of their $5 cover back because they paid to hear the guitar the whole time and there was 35ms of dropout so they feel ripped off?

If there is a band out there who is so well timed that every member is in sync down to the millisecond I’d love to hear them, and also try to hear an audio dropout in the mix.

The short gap on the AXE3 is not a problem. But if you switch channels and miss the first note or two of your solo, it is a problem

 

[iaresee]

I used to have a setup with an analog amp switcher and two amps, with no audio dropouts.

Run two AMP blocks in parallel, like you would in the real world, and it's completely seamless. You can even crossfade between them at any rate you chose with a continuous controller. But wait! It gets better! You can choose the crossfade point in the signal chain. With real-life amps you're pretty much limited to crossfading in front of the amps because there aren’t a lot of crossfading systems that can handle the power amp output. With the Axe-Fx you can cross fade post-amp, pre-cabinet if you like.

 

[Boogiem]

Run two AMP blocks in parallel, like you would in the real world, and it's completely seamless. You can even crossfade between them at any rate you chose with a continuous controller. But wait! It gets better! You can choose the crossfade point in the signal chain. With real-life amps you're pretty much limited to crossfading in front of the amps because there are a lot of crossfading systems that can handle the power amp output. With the Axe-Fx you can cross fade post-amp, pre-cabinet if you like.

Thanks You so much iaresee thats a great feature that makes me very happy.....

 

[Chad Beattie]

Here are a few quick and dirty audio examples. No rhyme or reason as to when scenes/channels are changing. Just played something into the looper block and had it going the whole time.

All scene and channel changes were done via the front panel with Axe-Edit closed. The last audio clip is an example where you could switch between amps using the multiplexer block. (Probably many other ways to do this also). You could use an external pedal/switch to toggle between channels without changing scenes. As you can hear in the last example, it's instant.

Amp block cycling through 4 channels directly
Amp block cycling through four channels via scenes



Multiplexer switching channel via scenes
Multiplexer switching channels directly

 

[Rex]

Channel switching on the Axe-FX III is faster than the channel-switching on real tube amps.

Here’s a post that contains an audio clip of Axe III channel switching. You should listen to that clip before you let yourself get too worked up about “dropout.”

 

[lqdsnddist]

The short gap on the AXE3 is not a problem. But if you switch channels and miss the first note or two of your solo, it is a problem

Its like 35 milliseconds of gap though.... I don't think anyone can possibly pick so fast as to play one or two notes within a period of 35 milliseconds.... that would be like 28 or so notes per second, which is like 1600 notes per minute.

Likewise, I don't think anyone is so well coordinated that they can time the physical action of pressing a foot switch with the exact time they hit a note down to millisecond precision. Its simply beyond my comprehension how its even a plausible complaint.

If we were talking like 2 or 3 seconds, then sure, that would feel like pretty noticeable lag time and its an issue, but we aren't talking about a second, even half a second, not even 1/10th of a second, but 35ms!

According to Google, the average duration of a human blink is 100 to 400 milliseconds, so the gap time is about 3 times quicker than the fastest blink of the eye. That is one heck of a guitarist who's right hand is faster than the blink of an eye!

 

[lqdsnddist]

Hi Iqdsnddist, Here some answer for you..
I like to change amp type sound when i do solos, I often start with a clean/breakup amp and change over to more saturated amps later in the solo, mostly in the end on that last high hanging high notes. Thats why I dont like audio dropouts.
Sometimes I kick in a drive pedal or a booster, but sometimes I like to change the sound completely. Thats why, I like to change amp.

If your changing the sound completely though, hitting a pedal halfway through etc, that sudden change of the tone is going to be noticeable, a gap isn't. Believe it or not, but many adult listeners CAN NOT perceive auditory gaps of less than about 40ms!

Just FYI but I have a doctorate in audiology and did a lot of experiments and research on human auditory perception in grad school. One of which is measuring minimum auditory gap detection in different listeners. Basically what you do is have an audio stimulus with variable gap time, and also variable frequency ranges. You vary the time of the gap until you find the point where the listeners is able to perceive their is an auditory dropout. A lot of adult listeners can't perceive a gap less than 40ms, they hear it as a steady tone, again depending a bit on frequency range, and also if there is some degree of hearing impairment they gap times get worse etc. About the best any human can is tended to be about 20ms, and that was younger listeners in most cases. This is in a controlled environment too, not audience members listening to a live band...

Basically, even if you started to have steady audio dropouts lasting 35ms on a hanging note, most people would not technically be able to perceive there is any gap.

Its kind of like someone complaining their PA system isn't reproducing 30,000 Hz frequencies, its a moot point, because there isn't anyone in the audience who can perceive that pitch range anyways.

 

[MSS]

I run 2 amps while recording and use midi to switch scenes clean to mean and I dont notice any dropout on the III. On the ax 8 I have to use one amp and then scenes to add boost or drive to get the same results. Usually there is a natural place to switch in the progression where you dont notice the slight lag from switching amps anyways though.

 

[HAhN SOLO]

In my IIXL I would run 2 amp blocks and stage the X/Y so I could run 4 amps seamlessly based on my preset and scene flow.

When I'm listening on my IEM's or studio monitors, yeah I can hear that split second change. In a venue, the sound hasn't even bounced back from the wall 30 ft away before the new sound is coming from the speakers. With all the reflection going on, it's virtually unnoticeable unless you know what you're listening for. 99.9% of your audience won't care, if they notice at all.

 

[bdrepko]

Its like 35 milliseconds of gap though.... I don't think anyone can possibly pick so fast as to play one or two notes within a period of 35 milliseconds.... that would be like 28 or so notes per second, which is like 1600 notes per minute.

Likewise, I don't think anyone is so well coordinated that they can time the physical action of pressing a foot switch with the exact time they hit a note down to millisecond precision. Its simply beyond my comprehension how its even a plausible complaint.

If we were talking like 2 or 3 seconds, then sure, that would feel like pretty noticeable lag time and its an issue, but we aren't talking about a second, even half a second, not even 1/10th of a second, but 35ms!

According to Google, the average duration of a human blink is 100 to 400 milliseconds, so the gap time is about 3 times quicker than the fastest blink of the eye. That is one heck of a guitarist who's right hand is faster than the blink of an eye!

Read my quote "The short gap on the AXE3 is not a problem". I was referring to the AXE2 and AX8.

 

[Boogiem]

Here are a few quick and dirty audio examples. No rhyme or reason as to when scenes/channels are changing. Just played something into the looper block and had it going the whole time.

All scene and channel changes were done via the front panel with Axe-Edit closed. The last audio clip is an example where you could switch between amps using the multiplexer block. (Probably many other ways to do this also). You could use an external pedal/switch to toggle between channels without changing scenes. As you can hear in the last example, it's instant.

Amp block cycling through 4 channels directly
Amp block cycling through four channels via scenes

View attachment 46785

Multiplexer switching channel via scenes
Multiplexer switching channels directly

View attachment 46784

Thanks for the audio clips Chad, seem that multiplexer switching between Two amp block is best way with no audio gaps.

 

[BrownNote71]

I do find it interesting that my Gt-1000 offers truly seamless switching... absolutely no dropout... but even switching scenes on my Uber powerful Axe3 there is a signal interruption.

 

[chris]

I do find it interesting that my Gt-1000 offers truly seamless switching... absolutely no dropout... but even switching scenes on my Uber powerful Axe3 there is a signal interruption.

The GT-1000 doesn’t do what the Axe does. There are way more things changing in the Axe so the audio mute is put there on purpose.

If the Axe changed only the few things that the GT does, it too could do it without the audio gap.

Just because “a sound changes” on both units doesn’t mean they’re doing the same thing.