Axe -> Power Amp -> Cab = shit tone

S

Señor Anselmo

Member
Hey,

recently I'm running my Axe Fx2 with a Matrix Gt1000 into a 2x12 Zilla Cab and the results are kind of frustrating which shouldn't be due to the gear.

If I turn the Cab Sim off it makes a chainsaw (only relates to distorted sound off all kind, but the cleans sound bad too) like tone and if I leave the Cab Sim on it's a really dull sound.

Have I missed anything? The manual and the WWW only tell to turn the cab sim off and voilà.

Maybe you can help me out...just really not satisfied with the tone

Cheers
 
Need a little more info:
Amp type?
What is "good tone" that you're looking to cover?
Have you set your input and output levels correctly?
 
It relates to any amp, also from presets. So I'm pretty sure this is not a matter of taste. The distorted sounds sound just like if you don't turn on the Cab sim if you play your axe via studio monitors for example.

Well I set them so that it wouldn't clip. But nothing else
 
Are you simply taking an existing patch set up for FRFR and turning off cab sims? This is not likely to give the best results. Moreover, the harsh contrast going from cab sims on to cab sims off is, I think, misleading to the ears.

I suggest starting from scratch. With fresh ears, pick an amp model and make a patch containing only that at default settings, and then start tweaking. I have a similar setup, and I find that it doesn't take much tweaking to get a good tone. Set the low res frequency appropriately for your zilla - that will help. (I almost always find bringing in some depth helps me.)
 
If you haven't already, reset your AxeFx. Then, from scratch, put an amp block only. Test which sounds better (cab sim on vs off). With the Matrix, on might be better. If all else fails, reinstall firmware.
 
A cow don't make ham. Assuming that all of your gear is working properly, switching from cab IRs in the AxeFx to a real cabinet becomes ALL ABOUT the characteristics of the physical (Zilla) cabinet.

- what speakers loaded
- cabinet impedance
- open or closed back

Traditional speaker cabinets are, generally speaking, voiced a certain way to sound good within a relatively narrow range of sounds. An open back 2x12 ain't gonna sound like a 4x12 slant Marshall, right? We all know this.

So, the answer to your dilemma is for you to understand the "why and how" of what the technology is attempting to do, and then use a thoughtful, methodical approach. Confirm all your gear is working properly. From there, as mentioned previously, clear out a patch so you only have the amp block (with Power amp modeling ON, globally, and in the Amp block a SAG value higher than zero), and use an amp model that is APPROPRIATE for the Zilla cabinet. Then it is a simple matter of adjusting the tone to taste. From there, YMMV, but you should be able to get a usable sound. If not, then you may have something funky going on.

FWIW, what does your rig sound like with the AxeFx in Global bypass (no processing or FX) into the MAtrix into the Zilla? Does it sound as you would expect, or is it particularly bright and harsh sounding?
 
Señor Anselmo said:
Hey,

recently I'm running my Axe Fx2 with a Matrix Gt1000 into a 2x12 Zilla Cab and the results are kind of frustrating which shouldn't be due to the gear.

If I turn the Cab Sim off it makes a chainsaw (only relates to distorted sound off all kind, but the cleans sound bad too) like tone and if I leave the Cab Sim on it's a really dull sound.

Have I missed anything? The manual and the WWW only tell to turn the cab sim off and voilà.

Maybe you can help me out...just really not satisfied with the tone

Cheers
Click to expand...

One thing you have to understand with the Axe is that all of the existing presets that come with it were designed for FRFR type speakers or direct to a PA system. If you are using poweramp/guitar cab(like I am), you will have to design all of your patches from scratch. Find a blank preset and add an amp block only. Then from there start tweaking the tone. I tend to always enable the Bass cut and the Bright switch on pretty much all of my patches. From there, it's tweaking the tone stack and then adjusting to taste with the Graphic EQ. One of my favorite amps is the JCM 800 Mod with a Drive block in front with TS-808, pure 80's thrash tone! For more gain, you can enable the Saturation option (Ideal sounds best to me) and set it from 2-4.
 
Great! Many seem to enjoy shit tone, it seems, including myself.
Players must never stoop to using gear that's obviously beneath their oh so discriminating tastes and abilities.
 
I had the same problem. I use this global 10 band GEQ right before the output to my power amp/cab on all my distorted tones and it sounds amazing through my Peavey XXX cab. Try these settings as a starting point. This is my first picture upload to the forum so hopefully it works!
 

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Try resetting the amp model, start from defaults. My rig sounds pretty close to it going through my k12 and when I go through my boogie 4x12 and ada poweramp.
 
With an actual cab, when playing at bedroom volumes, I like a low pass somewhere between 10,000hz and 12,000hz, just to trim off some of the fizz.

Also super basic but worth saying - guitar cabs are very directional, and your position in the room relative to the cab makes a world of difference. I don't like sitting on-axis to my guitar cab, I prefer a very-off-axis position.
 
Do what they said and start from scratch just using an amp model. I have some seriously sick patches using headphones and IRs that sound terrible thru a power amp and cab.

It's usually a matter of 5 minutes from powering on the Axe to getting a good tone. B/M/T mostly, although I do like to throw a Mesa 5 band on there. Like said above, you're trying to make presets designed for something completely different sound good for a completely different application. It's no wonder it's not working.
 
have the same setup, first off all NL12s sound really good when you push them, so you need volume. and what amp sim are you using?
incase its a non master volume amp, for bedroom levels turn the master down in amp block. that would reduce the power amp breakup and at low volumes you might find it more ear pleasing and similar to original amp sound (since you almost never get to turn most of those amps all the way up in real life)
 
First of all sorry for the misleading thread title. This was of course with reference to my own issue and not meant in general. I've seen a enough live bands using this set up and blowing my mind with how good the sound was.

Thank you for all your suggestions. I still think something might be wrong with some part of the gear. I'll go through all your tips and see if I can eventuallyy tweak it to my liking.

Cheers!
 
mnemonic said:
With an actual cab, when playing at bedroom volumes, I like a low pass somewhere between 10,000hz and 12,000hz, just to trim off some of the fizz.
Click to expand...
Quoted for emphasis. VOLUME is absolutely critical with a real cab. IMHO, they are much more transparent at low volume but at high volume they seem to roll off more naturally. So not only do you need to dial in using the power amp + cab from a blank preset, you should do it @ the target volume. As others have noted, do not feel bad about applying a high cut or low cut if need be (although I personally have not found the need to really do this since about FW12 or so).
 
zenaxe said:
Quoted for emphasis. VOLUME is absolutely critical with a real cab. IMHO, they are much more transparent at low volume but at high volume they seem to roll off more naturally. So not only do you need to dial in using the power amp + cab from a blank preset, you should do it @ the target volume. As others have noted, do not feel bad about applying a high cut or low cut if need be (although I personally have not found the need to really do this since about FW12 or so).
Click to expand...

And I'm quoting *again* for emphasis. Absolutely agreed. The sound of a guitar cab at bedroom volume is *not* the same as when it's being pushed. I've had great luck with just taking a blank preset, dropping in an amp, tweaking B/M/T/P and gain, and getting really great sounds. But again, you gotta turn it up.
 
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