Axe-FX Noise Issue?

R

rlcramer

New Member
Axe-FX Noise

Ok - so I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about ground loops, rfi, 60 cycle hum, etc. I've always been the kind of guy who would simply plug into an amp and go.

Well, lately, every time I plug one of my guitars into my Axe-Fx I get this ridiculous hum / noise. I have no clue what it is. It may be something really stupid like "Dude, turn down the gain on your Axe-FX patch" but I'm posting here to get a more professional opinion. I've tried different guitars, different electrical outlets, computer on, computer off, LCD's off, LCD's on, etc. I can't even think of anything else to do to troubleshoot that I haven't already done.

Below is a recording of me plucking a string on my guitar, and the resuting noise. The chain is - guitar (in the case of the sample wav - a Strat with EMG's - but the same noise happens on my Les Paul, and my SG) / axe-fx / MOTU 896HD. I toook out my power conditioner, shut off my monitors, turned off all the lights, etc. And the noise is still there. If any of you guys know what "type" of noise this is, and if you can recommend a way for me to eliminate it, I would be forever in your debt.

This is a sample of the noise - http://216.92.49.24/noise.wav

This is the Patch used in the sample wav. http://216.92.49.24/noise_patch.syx

Do you guys think I have a real problem? Or is it just the nature of a high gain patch?

Bobby
 
Doesn't sound like high-gain hum to me, more like a grounding buzz. You certainly shouldn't be getting this with EMGs. Those things are dead quiet.
 
Re: Axe-FX Noise

You didn't mention this in your post, but have you tried switching cables between your instrument and the Axe-FX, and the Axe-FX and your amp/computer input?

I was getting a bad hum like this between my Axe-FX and amp, and finally realized it was a bad (or excessively long) cable, which in other applications gave me no problem.
 
Re: Axe-FX Noise

I'll tell you my noise experience. I used my Ultra in my apt and get all sorts of noise everywhere went to my practice space and zilch. Problem is my apt has all sorts of dimmer switches and who knows what that are causing all kinds of buzzing and noise that even through my furman is unstoppable. Try it at a new location maybe and see if it continues
 
Yeah - I'm going to try moving it to a new location in my house today, and if that doesn't do it maybe I'll take it to a friend's house.

I was also thinking that maybe it has to do with the cheapo APC UPS that I have in my studio? The Axe isn't plugged into the UPS, but the UPS is RIGHT next to my Axe, so maybe there is some type of interference being introdued by the Axe-FX being physically close to the UPS? Just a thought. Or maybe my street power is dirty, and actually plugging the Axe-FX into the UPS would be a good thing?

I've tried swapping cables a bunch of times, and it doesn't make any difference.

If anyone knows of anything else I can try - I'm all ears. And thanks to everyone so far for thir suggestions.

One thing I would like to clarify is that this doesn't seem to be an issue with just the Axe-fx - it seems to be most (possibly all) of the gear in my studio as well, so it's is most likely some type of cabling or electrical issue.

Bobby
 
CRT monitors
Light dimmers
Energy Saving Lightbulbs
Computers
Any electronics equipment with "switching power supply"
Any heavy load equipment (AC, motors, fridge)
Any wireless device

Move around, shut down equipment one by one, there is no simple awnser but the noise comes from somewhere and you have to find it.

:idea:
 
energy saving light bulbs are a killer..

ground loops are biotch to track down and get rid of. If it's in the rack, you can build up the rack by adding each item and testing as you go. Do the ground lift thing if you need to on the offending item.
 
Re: Axe-FX Noise

rlcramer said:
Ok - so I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about ground loops, rfi, 60 cycle hum, etc. I've always been the kind of guy who would simply plug into an amp and go.

Well, lately, every time I plug one of my guitars into my Axe-Fx I get this ridiculous hum / noise. I have no clue what it is. It may be something really stupid like "Dude, turn down the gain on your Axe-FX patch" but I'm posting here to get a more professional opinion. I've tried different guitars, different electrical outlets, computer on, computer off, LCD's off, LCD's on, etc. I can't even think of anything else to do to troubleshoot that I haven't already done.

Below is a recording of me plucking a string on my guitar, and the resuting noise. The chain is - guitar (in the case of the sample wav - a Strat with EMG's - but the same noise happens on my Les Paul, and my SG) / axe-fx / MOTU 896HD. I toook out my power conditioner, shut off my monitors, turned off all the lights, etc. And the noise is still there. If any of you guys know what "type" of noise this is, and if you can recommend a way for me to eliminate it, I would be forever in your debt.

This is a sample of the noise - http://216.92.49.24/noise.wav

This is the Patch used in the sample wav. http://216.92.49.24/noise_patch.syx


Do you guys think I have a real problem? Or is it just the nature of a high gain patch?

Bobby
Click to expand...

May not be applicable to your situation but:
1. Most electric guitars (except for those with active pickups like EMGs) have a ground wire connected electrically to the strings via the brid=ge or the tail-piece. If you're not touching the strings you should expect to hear more background hum than if you are touching the strings.

2. Sometimes by changing the angle of the guitar with respect to other electrical devices in the room you can diminish the noise picked up by the pickups to a large degree. Some rooms are just noisy because the wiring is poorly designed, even with EMGs on your guitar.

3. For the amount of gain you have on that sound it doesn't seem inordinately noisy to me.
If the noise gate threshold was raised so that the noise gate kicks in earlier I don't think you'd have much of a problem.
Hi-gain sounds always have a higher than normal signal-to-noise ratio. You have to play in such a way that your listeners hear more signal than noise.
 
Re: Axe-FX Noise

rlcramer said:
Ok - so I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about ground loops, rfi, 60 cycle hum, etc. I've always been the kind of guy who would simply plug into an amp and go.

Well, lately, every time I plug one of my guitars into my Axe-Fx I get this ridiculous hum / noise. I have no clue what it is. It may be something really stupid like "Dude, turn down the gain on your Axe-FX patch" but I'm posting here to get a more professional opinion. I've tried different guitars, different electrical outlets, computer on, computer off, LCD's off, LCD's on, etc. I can't even think of anything else to do to troubleshoot that I haven't already done.

Below is a recording of me plucking a string on my guitar, and the resuting noise. The chain is - guitar (in the case of the sample wav - a Strat with EMG's - but the same noise happens on my Les Paul, and my SG) / axe-fx / MOTU 896HD. I toook out my power conditioner, shut off my monitors, turned off all the lights, etc. And the noise is still there. If any of you guys know what "type" of noise this is, and if you can recommend a way for me to eliminate it, I would be forever in your debt.

This is a sample of the noise - http://216.92.49.24/noise.wav

This is the Patch used in the sample wav. http://216.92.49.24/noise_patch.syx

Do you guys think I have a real problem? Or is it just the nature of a high gain patch?

Bobby
Click to expand...


Have you recorded using the digital out of the Axe-Fx?
If so, you have to select SPIDIF External Source in your sound card.
 
dpeterson said:
energy saving light bulbs are a killer..
Click to expand...
:eek: ...That's the first time I've heard that. Literally...I've got energy savers in my studio and didn't really notice a difference. What's the problem with them ?
 
VegaBaby said:
That's the first time I've heard that. Literally...I've got energy savers in my studio and didn't really notice a difference. What's the problem with them ?
Click to expand...
They're fluorescents. The current flow in fluorescent lights is discontinuous, looking more like a square wave than a sine, so there are magnetic fields with lots of high frequency harmonic content, which makes them more audible in audio gear. If your wiring is well-done - ideally with hot and neutral (but not ground) twisted, with a high twist rate - then the current flow to the lights will create opposing - and therefore cancelling - magnetic fields. In that case, changing from incandescents to energy savers may not cause any problems.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
VegaBaby said:
That's the first time I've heard that. Literally...I've got energy savers in my studio and didn't really notice a difference. What's the problem with them ?
Click to expand...
They're fluorescents. The current flow in fluorescent lights is discontinuous, looking more like a square wave than a sine, so there are magnetic fields with lots of high frequency harmonic content, which makes them more audible in audio gear. If your wiring is well-done - ideally with hot and neutral (but not ground) twisted, with a high twist rate - then the current flow to the lights will create opposing - and therefore cancelling - magnetic fields. In that case, changing from incandescents to energy savers may not cause any problems.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jay ! I'm no electrician by any means and the only 'old-school-test' I've done with them was switching them on and off to see if any noise is being introduced. No difference. Then again, it's not that I'm using 20 of them :D ...
 
Guys - thanks for the info so far. Just to let you know, I moved the Axe-FX into basically EVERY room in my house, using EVERY outlet I could find. Eventually. I found a few outlets in my son's room where the Axe-FX was totally silent. So now, I gues I have a bigger electrical issue in my house than just some interference or an incorrectly grounded outlet. I'll keep you guys posted with what I find out.

If anyone has ever seen anything like this, your ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.

Bobby
 
rlcramer said:
If anyone has ever seen anything like this, your ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.

Bobby
Click to expand...
Unintended current loops are the most likely culprit. If the supply and return current paths for a light or appliance are separated by a wide spacing - say, if the neutral were routed differently than the hot - a magnetic field will be generated inside the loop. This field will couple with audio devices and induce hum. If there are devices that have transient current draws in the current loop - SCR dimmers, fluorescent lights, CRTs, etc. the harmonic content of the induced magnetic field will include overtones of the line frequency, as well as RF.

Unintended current loops are more likely to be a problem in older houses.
 
Ah - this is helpful. I moved house recently and am now having all sorts of major problems with hum and buzzing which I've never experienced before, even with well-shielded guitars with noiseless pickups or humbuckers. I've noticed that rolling off the tone on the guitars kills the hum if that means anything?

The new house does have a few dimmers and energy saving bulbs, but I get the buzzing regardless of whether the lights are on or not. Would replacing the dimmers throughout the whole house with standard switches make a difference?
 
Guys - I think I might have figured out my issue. I located 2 rooms in my house that exhibited no noise. I dragged my entire studio rack, and one speaker to EVERY outlet in my house. Finally in my son's room, and my daughter's room, the noise went away completely. The only difference that I can see, is that both of these rooms have Arc Fault breakers in my electrical panel. I'm not sure what they are, or what they do, but it seems that their presence cures my noise problems.

Does anyone know why this would be? Should I simply replace the breakers for my studio with Arc fault breakers and call it a day? Or is there something else potentially bigger at play here?

Yeah - I'm an electrical idiot, so if any of you guys can shed some light on this for me, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bobby
 
rlcramer said:
The only difference that I can see, is that both of these rooms have Arc Fault breakers in my electrical panel. I'm not sure what they are, or what they do, but it seems that their presence cures my noise problems.
Click to expand...

I don't think ARC Fault Breaker "cures noise" but if I'm wrong please let us know, it would be wonderful if they did.

ARC Fault Breakers monitor .... line noise (ha ha ha) and react to line noise
that has the characteristics of an arc.

;)

It's more likely that these ARC breakers sit on a different phase of the power line.
If that's the case you want to move your studio breaker to the same phase line.

Warning
3 phase (360volt) electric panels can easily kill, get an electrician to do it unless you absolutely know what you are doing!

:!:
 
I get huge hums as well. I have a Strat with EMG SAs which I was gonna take apart this weekend just to see if it's wired wrong. Problem is it does it with other guitars too.
 
I am also having some strange "noise type" issues. almost like a fast noisy tremolo effect.

Only on the high gain at certain notes - mainly the higher notes on G and B strings (above 12th fret is worst).
Noticed it the other day whilst testing out Mark Day's patches through my Mac using headphones, then tried it with other high gain patches across loads of amp models with and without drives on - same thing. Using SPDIF to MBOX and Balanced output on Axe- same result
also tried it with 4 different guitars, Suhr S3, PRS CU22, Musicman Luke and Brian May- Is worst on Humbuckers (probably a function of Gain), and worst of all was the Brian May guitar with the pickups out of phase.

Thought it was the Axe - Was considering posting the patches in hope that someone could test, but tonight I put my Suhr straight into my Mac (via MBOX 2 Pro - Firewire) went into logic and used the gtr amp pro with a high gain patch - same thing. Started to think it's the Mac or MBox. Next I put the Axe FX into my Epiphone valve junior - same thing. - So not the Mac etc etc.

Only thing I can think is that it's the wiring in the house that may be noisy and it's showing up with high gain sounds (house is about 50 years old) .
I have a gig tomorrow night so will see how it sounds through My BoseL1 and someone elses Mains.
Am in UK BTW so using 240 @ 50Hz - no power conditioner - but for the Axe I ho use a home cinema filtered externsion lead - have also tried ferrites - no good

Have created a real short clip but can't seem to attache it


any suggestions - ????

Thanks in advance.
 
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