Axe-FX III with Real cab vs. the Real thing

Is there a noticeable difference when your playing Axe-Fx III with power amp and cab vs. Amp + cab?

  • I hear or feel a difference in the room, but I like them both equally

    Votes: 37 28.0%

  • I hear a difference in the room, but I prefer Axe-Fx III with a power amp and cab

    Votes: 17 12.9%

  • I hear a difference in the room, I prefer real amp with cab

    Votes: 25 18.9%

  • I can't hear or feel a difference, and don't think I could tell in a blind test.

    Votes: 53 40.2%
  • Total voters
    132
Is there anyone who prefers the resistive load impedance? The power station is a reactive load so not sure what to select. I basically have just been selecting the impedance closest to my cab type.
 
FractalAudio said:
The Axe-Fx's speaker impedance curve was set to match the cabinet (it's one of the stock curves). The knobs on the model were set to match the knobs on the amp.
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Any tips on how to match the IR curve to the cabinet?
Other than picking a curve that is from a similarly configured cabinet (i.e. 4x12 with v30’s), and also trying to find the LF resonance of the real cab, I’d be unsure what other measures to take.
 
As I understand it, tube power amps (PS I believe is a tube power amp after attenuator) automatically lock onto / set to the correct IC for any connected cab. So I would tend to use the RL IC option and let the tube p.a. cab do their dance - but if a diffetent IC sounds better to u, go for it.
 
I cannot truthfully answer any of these. I have an axe fx 3 and run them through 2 Friedman ASC 12's. To me it doesn't sound as good as I hear everyone else's stuff on here but when my friend brings over his helix and we plug the Friedman's up to it, it sounds killer. Not sure why there is such a difference in sound between the Helix and the axe fx.
 
sprint said:
As I understand it, tube power amps (PS I believe is a tube power amp after attenuator) automatically lock onto / set to the correct IC for any connected cab. So I would tend to use the RL IC option and let the tube p.a. cab do their dance - but if a diffetent IC sounds better to u, go for it.
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Interesting, I briefly tried the resistive load the other day and it didn't sound right. But I will definitely give it another try if that is what is recommended.
 
AtomicBlaze said:
The EQ sounded too flat and dull. But maybe if I select it first then dial in the patch it will be ok.
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maybe that's how that cab sounds connected to that tube amp (the "correct" IC does not necesserily always sound good I suspect).
 
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I still use all of the parameters in a hybrid setup (IRs to FOH/monitors, LXII+cab on stage). For the impedance curve, I set it by ear (though I have 3 or 4 settings I return to).I did not like any of the flat/resistive load settings as they also sound a little boring to me in the bottom end in particular. I'll use SS+Cab if I want more punch in general, as there multiple places for more "compressed" options, but few for more dynamic range (besides the expander and dynamic distortion). If anything gives me trouble, it's an excessive amount of high/high-mid energy on the LXII side of things. Recently, I've taken to using the dynamic distortion to tame those highs so it's volume dependent.
 
FractalAudio said:
No. The speaker volumes were matched using a dB meter.

The right speaker just sounds better.

No two speakers are exactly the same. No two amps are exactly the same. No two guitars are exactly the same.

People get all hung up on whether something sounds exactly like something else. It doesn't matter. All that matters is what sounds good.
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Sounds like it could've been the room modes/reflections and whatnot instead? I've done a similar test but with two different monitors next to each other, and one sounded like ass compared to the other. Swapped their spots and the assness didn't follow the monitor but stayed in the same spot.

I learned that true A/B tests are hard to do! I've read somewhere that the folks at Harman have a room with a set of motorized rotating platforms where various speakers get placed for A/B tests, all hidden behind curtains. So unless one has that... agreed, use what sounds good! :p
 
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yeky83 said:
Sounds like it could've been the room modes/reflections and whatnot instead? I've done a similar test but with two different monitors next to each other, and one sounded like ass compared to the other. Swapped their spots and the assness didn't follow the monitor but stayed in the same spot.

I learned that true A/B tests are hard to do! I've read somewhere that the folks at Harman have a room with a set of motorized rotating platforms where various speakers get placed for A/B tests, all hidden behind curtains. So unless one has that... agreed, use what sounds good! :p
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We moved the cab and the right speaker still sounded better.
 
FractalAudio said:
No. The speaker volumes were matched using a dB meter.

The right speaker just sounds better.

No two speakers are exactly the same. No two amps are exactly the same. No two guitars are exactly the same.

People get all hung up on whether something sounds exactly like something else. It doesn't matter. All that matters is what sounds good.
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This is it. Does it sound good or not? Because nothing sounds the same even if the same maker, same speakers, amps they're all slightly different.
 
FractalAudio said:
I took part in the test too. I liked the right speaker every time. The right speaker simply sounded better.

When Eric Johnson recorded Ah Via Musicom his cab had all the same speakers in it but he had a favorite speaker in that cab that sounded "best".
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I did the same thing trying to match up my 2203x with the Brit800. I had my 1960a in stereo with amp in 1/2 and Axe III in other 1/2. Real amp was MUCH warmer and I couldn’t find a setting that got very close so I swapped cab sides… sure enough, Axe was the warmer one now. I need to get an amp switcher so I don’t have to rely on different speakers but 400 bucks is a lot of money just to amuse myself with comparisons.
 
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AtomicBlaze said:
The Resistive Load IC can't be right for the Power Station, it sounds bad. I think it is best for me just to choose the best-sounding one and tweak the EQ on it as needed, most of them sound pretty good anyway.
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You’re essentially doubling up the effect of impedance curves since your power amp is already reacting to the cab but who cares? Do what sounds good!
 
AtomicBlaze said:
The Resistive Load IC can't be right for the Power Station, it sounds bad. I think it is best for me just to choose the best-sounding one and tweak the EQ on it as needed, most of them sound pretty good anyway.
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lastcaress83 said:
You’re essentially doubling up the effect of impedance curves since your power amp is already reacting to the cab but who cares? Do what sounds good!
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I'm going to post the email I received from David Phelge at Fryette in regards to questions I had about impedance curves with the Axe and the LXII power amp. Hopefully it helps:

My Email:
I'm using the LXII with the Axe Fx 3 and I'm trying to figure out the correct settings regarding impedance curves.

Is it correct to set the Axe Fx's impedance curve flat (resistive load) when connected to the LXII? I'm guessing the LXII is already supplying a real impedance curve from its connected cab. This sounds too midrangey and boxy at bedroom volumes, but it sounds fine at band practice. I prefer to have a cab impedance curve active on the Axe Fx at low volumes.

That is what I experience when the LXII is at it's "flat" settings (no depth/presence activated). What happens if the depth and presence switches are active while a cab impedance curve is active on the Axe Fx? Is this tripling the typical impedance curve EQ (from cab, from Axe, from LXII)?

What are the recommended settings for the LXII when using it with a modeler at loud volumes?
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Dave's Reply:
Thank you for contacting Fryette Amplification.

We generally find that using full models with modeled impedance curves enabled in modelers works best. As you noted, using the “resistive load” setting tends to make it sound nasal – which is the same thing that happens with real amps and resistive loads. This really only comes up with the Fractal stuff, as the Helix, Quad Cortex, Kemper, and GT-1000 don’t even let you set that parameter. Plenty of users get great results with all of them, as well, so really this is just an instance where too many options will tend to make people overthink things.

In fact, that is basically the principle behind the Power Station. If “doubling impedance curves” were really a thing then it wouldn’t be so highly regarded. There is no real “doubling” of the impedance curve effects – they are operating at different points in the system, and not really cumulative.

As far as the Presence/Depth controls go, that isn’t really “changing the impedance curve”. It is just tweaking the amount of negative feedback. Treat it as a final step of tweaking your sound for your room and application.

One last thing – remember, there are no “rules”! If it sounds good, it is good. Don’t get trapped into thinking there is a “Correct Way” to set such settings.

I hope that helps, and let us know if you need anything else,

Dave
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though there is no "correct" way, because many options can yield pleasing sounds without damaging anything, there is "intended design". Since Axfx very precisely and methodically models the whole amp/cab process, introducing duplicate or additinal external mechanisms (ie real power tubes) would seem to throw unknowns into the overall modelling design execution. In addition, imo, if most Axfx controls were treated by most users, mostly, as "spin the dials" and "use your ears" to pick what's best", then I'd say we gots waaay too many dials. I want the option to use the end to end modelling design strictly as intended. So ie, I want my IC setting to represent (for better or worse) the amp model + cab (real or IR) I've selected (preferably an automated
setting but that's still a wish), and then learn to use the other provided EQing tools to bring that "correct" (accurate to real) amp/cab/IR/IC model to life in a personally pleasing and faithful to the original equivilents way. I'll still have my beloved hybrid setups (modelling thru tube head, attenuators ... got it all and love it) but I want to retain the possibility of sticking strickly to Fractal's magical big design adventure which is Axfx (+SS amp to make louder). If it's all just spin all the dials and use my ears to pick what sounds best, I may as well just get a NuX and spin blissfully / tho less accurately with less dials to worry about. "Just ears" to dial deep into Axfx on multiples of
advanced settlngs? - no way ->> ears+brain+eyes.
 
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