Axe-Fx III 16.00 Beta 12 "Cygnus" Firmware - Public Release Candidate

[Omri Bazelet]

I played with the real Be100 Dlx (same as beta 11) last Saturday. This was the exact same sound. Maybe beta 12 sounds ok for be100 2018 owners but this is not the sound I’m used to. As you certainly missed, I didn’t say it sounds bad. I just don’t get it now because I was in love with beta 11 Friedman sounds and I can assure you Cliff nailed the Be100 dlx 2020’s sound!
So yes, I know what I’m talking about bro
No complain here, just here to talk about my impressions with betas.. isn’t it what public releases are made for?

Actually, I don't think you got me right. When you have a reference, or an actual experience of playing these amps. That is totally different!
Some people here has complained that the amp doesn't sound to their TASTE, and I don't meant that it doesn't like the amp, simply didn't sound "GOOD" and no one is actually bothering to check if the actual amp sound like that and they simply don't like that amp...

 

[tysonlt]

If you

if you know what I mean, to me, some Friedman amps are known to be a bit « muddy » or « less defined » but sometimes this is the tone I’m looking for. For instance, I used the Cygnus beta Bev1fat in my Kashmir video and to me it sounds « heavy ». Not as defined as Page’s sound but more...something else lol. Play it at +- 1min, you’ll understand. If you go through the song, there are 2 solos played with same amp but od808 in front, and geq with 3db boost for 2K frequency.

I quite enjoyed that.

 

[spikey]

My opinion is If the amp doesn't sound good to me I won't use it. It's that simple. But I'd rather have a "tone-wise" perfect twin of the amp represented here than one made up to just sound "good" to me. I can deal with that by tweaking it, and if that won't work there are many other choices available. And that I believe is what Cliff was after here with the Cygnus update, as well as all past firmware updates. As always, YMMV.

 

[Jandrezedouard]

I quite enjoyed that.

Oh thanks man! Lot of work on this one! Almost spent the night (I’m not a singer)

 

[Dave Merrill]

I just went back to beta 11 and back to beta 12.

TBH, I have no problems whatsoever to make beta 12 friedmans to sound like in beta 11, I did 2 tweaks and got there IMO.

What exactly are those two tweaks Thomas?

Dunno what the fuss is about, maybe just an user error...

I much prefer friedmans now, regardless of accuracy to the real amp (still think it is much more accurate now).

I loaded my ax8 as well, and can make friedman models roar and scream, even if they are not my favourites, after discovering new amp models in axe.

But I can understand there´s always will be someone, who will have different taste.

In this case, just tweak to your liking or go to previous fw, peace

Staying at any specific release means not getting any future fixes and enhancements. That's even less desirable when it's a beta, and not even a finished release candidate.

A much better solution would be for Cliff to keep both generations of that particular model. There's certainly precedent for doing that in the Axe.

 

[Jandrezedouard]

I know I can go back to beta 11 but as @Dave Merrill said that means no future updates. With the beta 12 Friedman I feel like a boy who received his favorite new toy but needs to give it back and take the old one..

 

[Manny Fufish]

If you

if you know what I mean, to me, some Friedman amps are known to be a bit « muddy » or « less defined » but sometimes this is the tone I’m looking for. For instance, I used the Cygnus beta Bev1fat in my Kashmir video and to me it sounds « heavy ». Not as defined as Page’s sound but more...something else lol. Play it at +- 1min, you’ll understand. If you go through the song, there are 2 solos played with same amp but od808 in front, and geq with 3db boost for 2K frequency.

I like the intro to this. Clarinet sounds great!

 

[Thomas Obester]

What exactly are those two tweaks Thomas?



Staying at any specific release means not getting any future fixes and enhancements. That's even less desirable when it's a beta, and not even a finished release candidate.

A much better solution would be for Cliff to keep both generations of that particular model. There's certainly precedent for doing that in the Axe.

those tweaks are :

lower the input eq low cut freq to match beta 11.
tweak the negative feedback with ears to match previous model.
tweak the grid bias with ears.

I did this with great results to match previous beta.

YMMV...

 

[Tommy Tempest]

those tweaks are :

lower the input eq low cut freq to match beta 11.
tweak the negative feedback with ears to match previous model.
tweak the grid bias with ears.

I did this with great results to match previous beta.

YMMV...

Good advice as any tone issue can be tweaked to the user's satisfaction. Plug and play users may not agree, but it's pretty much all about EQ and gain.

 

[Jandrezedouard]

I like the intro to this. Clarinet sounds great!

Thanks! Used to be my main instrument as a child

 

[Chris Hurley]

Beta 11 was based on a 2020 BE Deluxe. There are a couple resistors that are larger values which lowers the cutoff frequency of the coupling capacitors.

People were complaining about the models so I went back to the 2018 version of the amp. There is nothing you can do as a user aside from using Beta 11.

This probably ends up being quite aggravating from the development side.

I ended up discovering Friedman via Fractal, as I suspect many people did. I've been a fan of his stuff ever since.

People seem to have a preference for different BE family amps and it doesn't seem to be entirely based around "this is the one I own, so I prefer it."
I've seen people who own a BE50 Deluxe or BE100 Deluxe that loved it. I've also seen people who said they bought one to upgrade from an older BE and didn't like it as well for whatever reason. Then you have the Boutique Amp Distribution vs. Pre-BAD distinctions, or the pre-2016 vs. the post-2016 versions... I'm not sure how much of it is in people's heads but there are a lot of ways to bend the Axe-FX that are hard on the real amps.

It would be great if we could keep older models that are well loved in addition to newer models, but I understand there may be space limitations as well as problems where you just no longer had access to one or the other. Definitely "first world problems".

 

[Jandrezedouard]

Good advice as any tone issue can be tweaked to the user's satisfaction. Plug and play users may not agree, but it's pretty much all about EQ and gain.

I think

This probably ends up being quite aggravating from the development side.

I ended up discovering Friedman via Fractal, as I suspect many people did. I've been a fan of his stuff ever since.

People seem to have a preference for different BE family amps and it doesn't seem to be entirely based around "this is the one I own, so I prefer it."
I've seen people who own a BE50 Deluxe or BE100 Deluxe that loved it. I've also seen people who said they bought one to upgrade from an older BE and didn't like it as well for whatever reason. Then you have the Boutique Amp Distribution vs. Pre-BAD distinctions, or the pre-2016 vs. the post-2016 versions... I'm not sure how much of it is in people's heads but there are a lot of ways to bend the Axe-FX that are hard on the real amps.

It would be great if we could keep older models that are well loved in addition to newer models, but I understand there may be space limitations as well as problems where you just no longer had access to one or the other. Definitely "first world problems".

I believe you. I was stuck with the beta 11 sound... really hope they’ll implement it in the release! Thinking about getting a real Be-100 Dlx to keep that tone I love and use it in conjunction with the axe... don’t know...
I was a bit frustrated yesterday

 

[jon]

Dizzy V4 Silver 4 has a whopping TON of gain....even at 0 input drive is that correct Cliff?

I nuked my axe recently and reinstalled the factory presets, so it's preset 70 channel 3, and as I turned on the axe my guitar started feeding back and was really noisy with more gain than I ever thought possible on an amp

Not complaining, but it sounds REALLY over the top with gain now, just wanna know if it's correct or not

I've never played a real Diezel so I can't compare, but it has been one of my favorite amps/presets as of Cygnus, and I know the model was updated in this version, so if it is correct, no biggie, but even at 0 input gain this thing is a raging gain monster!!

 

[Thomas Obester]

Dizzy V4 Silver 4 has a whopping TON of gain....even at 0 input drive is that correct Cliff?

I nuked my axe recently and reinstalled the factory presets, so it's preset 70 channel 3, and as I turned on the axe my guitar started feeding back and was really noisy with more gain than I ever thought possible on an amp

Not complaining, but it sounds REALLY over the top with gain now, just wanna know if it's correct or not

I've never played a real Diezel so I can't compare, but it has been one of my favorite amps/presets as of Cygnus, and I know the model was updated in this version, so if it is correct, no biggie, but even at 0 input gain this thing is a raging gain monster!!

try herbie 3 with input gain at 0 super heavy rock sound

 

[Randalljax]

I think

I believe you. I was stuck with the beta 11 sound... really hope they’ll implement it in the release! Thinking about getting a real Be-100 Dlx to keep that tone I love and use it in conjunction with the axe... don’t know...
I was a bit frustrated yesterday

Did you try Thomas 3 tweaks?
reducing low cut
and raising bias excursion to get that fuzz/ hair on the note should get you closer to the 2020

 

[Jandrezedouard]

Did you try Thomas 3 tweaks?
reducing low cut
and raising bias excursion to get that fuzz/ hair on the note should get you closer to the 2020

Will try... would be simpler if Cliff added this model to the amp list though

 

[marshall2553]

The BE thing is weird. I have a BE-100 Deluxe that I love. I found the BE models in beta 11 to be flubby and fizzy compared to my amp and I much prefer the beta 12 versions, even though those appear to be based on an earlier version of the amp. The Deluxe has a number of ways to shape the low end using the thump knob, thump frequency switch and the response (negative feedback) switch. I don't know how Cliff had those set when he modeled it and I could probably make mine match the beta 11 models if I tried. But the way I run my BE may not be typical of the "Friedman Sound". I keep the thump very low and the response switch in the brightest position for more of a classic Marshall sound. I know Cliff said you can't perfectly replicate the beta 11 models, but you can probably get close by dropping the input EQ low cut and adjusting bias excursion. I used to obsess over how perfectly the models matched my real amps, but I've realized that just isn't a productive use of my time.

 

[Thomas Obester]

Will try... would be simpler if Cliff added this model to the amp list though

Hahahaha, easier for you, but Cliff is doing tons of hardwork, we can´t even imagine.

You can do that in 1 minute for yourself and be happy finally ;-)

 

[curious]

There is


I leveled the two sounds. There’s almost 3db less on the 12. It sounds less « heavy » to me. Sounds ok for you?

12 sounds a bit tighter and more focused which is great. Use some more gain or a drive if you want heavier.

 

[IronSean]

Would it be possible to have a list of factory bias values? The hotter bias is boosting some upper midrange frequencies and clouding top end in certain amps that balance out when the bias is reduced. The hotter bias probably works great with certain amps, but it would be nice to have that info in order to set certain amps back to “factory specs” without having to guess what the appropriate value should be.

I took your advice and kept my amps on for several hours to see if it would change the top end/upper midrange. The results were the same as my earlier experiment and it seems the Grid Bias is the parameter that gets the models to behave more like my real amps. It would be nice to have a value to input for accuracy rather than A/B’ing amps and models trying to find a match manually.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

To add some more context, and since I know you're a fan of the 5150 among others: The 5150 especially was fixed bias from the factory and could only be adjusted if you modded it in, so it does make sense that your real 5150 would be biased colder than the "how a tech would set it" bias Cliff chose. Mesa amps are the same.