Axe Fx II vs FM3 (Quantum 8 vs Cygnus X-3 Audio Comparison)

I've finally decided to jump into this after creeping on this thread for the last few days..

My studio setup still consists of my Axe FX II Mk2 and MFC 101, just for reference. I also did recently (within the last 6 months) acquire an FM3 Turbo so I feel like I can speak intelligently on the matter.

I have an engineering degree but it isn't in electronics or computers so I am not exactly qualified to speak on algorithms and modeling technology. I have been playing guitar avidly for 25 years and have and still own many of my dream amps, cabs, pedals, as well as my Fractal gear.

Those are my qualifications.

The FM3 feels better and has a more organic sound than my Axe FX II. Hands down, no question.

However, I am in no rush to rip my Axe FX II out of my studio and replace it with the FM3 or sell it for the III.

I have spent literally years dialing in my II to my exact taste and know (at least mostly) how every button and parameter will affect the sound. Furthermore, I have a lot of experience recording and gigging my II and I've not once ever been told that my tone lacks or sucks.. quite the contrary, I get a lot of praise.. even to this day.

I say all that to say that yes, the FM3 is a superior unit with superior modeling and tones. I use it primarily in my living room with a 1x12 and a SD powerstage, or headphones, when I want to practice/jam while watching football or whatever is on TV.

My point is, Fractal Audio can do no wrong. Even if you're still rocking a standard.. I've known of several people completely ditch their amp and pedal collections once they got their hands on a standard. I see little to no value in this discussion, sure its interesting, but it doesn't add or take away from any Fractal product.

Just get whatever Fractal product you can afford and I promise you will be satisfied.. if it sounds good to you and inspires you to play, then you made a pretty damn good purchase and you shouldn't question it too much. It's really that simple.
 
atyourlasthourrr said:
The FM3 feels better and has a more organic sound than my Axe FX II. Hands down, no question.

However, I am in no rush to rip my Axe FX II out of my studio and replace it with the FM3 or sell it for the III.

I have spent literally years dialing in my II to my exact taste and know (at least mostly) how every button and parameter will affect the sound. Furthermore, I have a lot of experience recording and gigging my II and I've not once ever been told that my tone lacks or sucks.. quite the contrary, I get a lot of praise.. even to this day.

My point is, Fractal Audio can do no wrong. Even if you're still rocking a standard.. I've known of several people completely ditch their amp and pedal collections once they got their hands on a standard. I see little to no value in this discussion, sure its interesting, but it doesn't add or take away from any Fractal product.

Just get whatever Fractal product you can afford and I promise you will be satisfied.. if it sounds good to you and inspires you to play, then you made a pretty damn good purchase and you shouldn't question it too much. It's really that simple.
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Agree 100%. The FM9 feels and sounds better than the II, but I'm still using the II for gigs. Not going to upgrade. The III feels and sounds better than the FM9, but I'm still using the FM9 for gigs. Totally satisfied and blown away. They don't all have to be identical to be awesome. Apparently, some people need them to be.
 
steadystate said:
Let me put it this way. If the difference I'm hearing is due to something other than the algorithms, no one would like to know more than me. It means I could search for another cause that I could do something about. Actually, scratch that. I wouldn't do anything about it, because there isn't any problem in the first place. I don't expect them to sound identical.

There is only one person on the planet who can set me straight, and it isn't you.
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Not trying to set you straight, though you ducked my questions, why?

Where is the compressed video you've repeatedly referenced and how was it created?

If you can't answer the latter question then your comparison and resulting opinions are flawed, and if you can't share the video then why are you referencing it? I don't care either way, just curious is all.

Regarding feel I can see the AFX3 feeling somewhat different due to in theory lower latency (assuming a fair comparison with the AFX3 not using dynamic distortion and input dynamics etc), and for some material maybe somewhat better sounding as well (down tuned ultra high gain etc), though a blanket statement that it's way better than both the FM's requires some substantiation.
 
DJD100 said:
Not trying to set you straight, though you ducked my questions, why?

Where is the compressed video you've repeatedly referenced and how was it created?

If you can't answer the latter question then your comparison and resulting opinions are flawed, and if you can't share the video then why are you referencing it? I don't care either way, just curious is all.

Regarding feel I can see the AFX3 feeling somewhat different due to in theory lower latency (assuming a fair comparison with the AFX3 not using dynamic distortion and input dynamics etc), and for some material maybe somewhat better sounding as well (down tuned ultra high gain etc), though a blanket statement that it's way better than both the FM's requires some substantiation.
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The video is posted earlier in this thread. It's the only one comparing the FM3 and the Axe III. I thought it was obvious. I guess not.

Out of curiosity, which Fractal amp modelers do you have at your disposal?
 
steadystate said:
The video is posted earlier in this thread. It's the only one comparing the FM3 and the Axe III. I thought it was obvious. I guess not.

Out of curiosity, which Fractal amp modelers do you have at your disposal?
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I don't want to look through this BS thread, so how about a link or post number? Note that without control, i.e. the details of how the video was created it's essentially useless for comparison purposes.

Earlier in the thread I stated I have a Axe II with tube preamps as a B-Rig, and a FM3 with a UA OX Stomp as the A-Rig, plus I have owned a Axe Ultra way back when (early Fractal fanboi here LOL!).
 
steadystate said:
The vid in this thread. As for how it was created, this isn't important in my context, since the difference audible here resembles what I'm hearing in my room, through my system, live, in realtime.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm9-fw-7-way-better.205188/#post-2559612
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Both sound great but I prefer the second I do not know why. I can only say my ringing ears just hear it a little better. Why? I haven't a clue. The difference is so close that if the two weren't played side by side I doubt I could tell the difference. I had to go back and watch it rather than listen so the second one was the Axe FXIII. Glad because that is the one I bought just a few couple months ago! But again they both sound really good.
 
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Bertotti said:
Both sound great but I prefer the second I do not know why. I can only say my ringing ears just hear it a little better. Why? I haven't a clue. The difference is so close that if the two weren't played side by side I doubt I could tell the difference. I had to go back and watch it rather than listen so the second one was the Axe FXIII. Glad because that is the one I bought just a few couple months ago! But again they both sound really good.
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Using only meaningless figurative terms, the III has greater clarity in the attack, greater separation between notes, and just a more complex and 3d feel to it. Or maybe it's much simpler than that, like a high-end difference. Some people won't notice it. Others may notice immediately. And, for the umpteenth time, I don't know why this is. It just is, at least in my setup. The FM9 sounds and feels great. But I am keeping the III because I perceive a difference (and I prefer the rack format for my studio).
 
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steadystate said:
Using only meaningless figurative terms, the III has greater clarity in the attack, greater separation between notes, and just a more complex and 3d feel to it. Some people won't notice it. Others may notice immediately. And, for the umpteenth time, I don't know why this is. It just is, at least in my setup. The FM9 sounds and feels great. But I am keeping the III because I perceive a difference (and I prefer the rack format for my studio).
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I always question what I hear, this is a recent habit. There is an upper frequency my ears ring at that I think affects what I hear up high and somethings just sound clearer to me.
 
DJD100 said:
Any legitimate comparison requires control.
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Whatever dude. I have my control right here in front of me. IMO, any legitimate comparison requires all units in question available for real-time in-person use, side by side by side.

My guess is that you hear the difference I'm talking about, but still can't bring yourself to even acknowledge the possibility that the FM3 might not sound identical to the III. So now you question the medium. Just a guess. If you can't hear a difference, then this discussion should be over here and now.

Get a III and compare for yourself. Only your opinion should matter to you. Fair warning: if you do order a III, the chances of you sending it back are very low.
 
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steadystate said:
Whatever dude. I have my control right here in front of me. IMO, any legitimate comparison requires all units in question available for real-time in-person use, side by side by side.

My guess is that you hear the difference I'm talking about, but still can't bring yourself to even acknowledge the possibility that the FM3 might not sound identical to the III. So now you question the medium. Just a guess. If you can't hear a difference, then this discussion should be over here and now.

Get a III and compare for yourself. Only your opinion should matter to you.
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Not wasting my time searching for your video, no link or post number, no listen, because I don't care enough to bother LOL!

I would be happy to give an opinion if the video described exactly how the comparisons were made and level corrected, i.e. input played by hand or recorded first so it's identical, input settings on the devices, recording interface(s) or USB etc, so no control simply means it's a waste of time as you don't know whether it's apples to apples or not?

If you ever make a professional comparison with all the important aspects noted, I'd love to hear it through my studio's Digidesign, Yamaha, and Westlake monitors.

Hint: Compressed video audio is not the preferred audio format for critical listening tests, try uncompressed 24bit audio instead.
 
DJD100 said:
Not wasting my time searching for your video, no link or post number, no listen, because I don't care enough to bother LOL!

I would be happy to give an opinion if the video described exactly how the comparisons were made and level corrected, i.e. input played by hand or recorded first so it's identical, input settings on the devices, recording interface(s) or USB etc, so no control simply means it's a waste of time as you don't know whether it's apples to apples or not?

If you ever make a professional comparison with all the important aspects noted, I'd love to hear it through my studio's Digidesign, Yamaha, and Westlake monitors.

Hint: Compressed video audio is not the preferred audio format for critical listening tests, try uncompressed 24bit audio instead.
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Search? You replied to the post where I gave the link. And it's not my video. No matter, I wouldn't refer to a video myself, so I don't blame you for not doing it either. I have the actual units for comparison, so I don't need recordings from others. They don't sound the same with concurrent firmware. Sorry if that's a problem for you. It isn't for me. I'm quite happy with the FM9. It sounds great. Just not identical to the III. So what?
 
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steadystate said:
Search? You replied to the post where I gave the link. And it's not my video. No matter, I wouldn't refer to a video myself, so I don't blame you for not doing it either. I have the actual units for comparison, so I don't need recordings from others. They don't sound the same with concurrent firmware. Sorry if that's a problem for you. It isn't for me. I'm quite happy with the FM9. It sounds great. Just not identical to the III. So what?
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Geez, he's playing by hand so that eliminates the test for comparison purposes, plus no control in that which firmware versions were compared, input settings used, etc, etc, etc. Also, it's well know that the FM3 lacks in the cab and reverb departments vs the Axe III, and that's a big issue seeing cabs are a huge percentage of any amp's tone, while the reverbs are better on the III so that's quite noticible on the early clean stuff.

I'm not the guy arguing that there are no differences, rather I'm the guy repeatedly stating that your referenced video proves absolutely nothing, and that a real comparison test should be made to ID whatever amp modeling differences there are aside from obvious differences in reverbs and cabs (IR lengths etc...), via a recorded input to both, same cabs for both, decent level correction and a lossless audio format to start.

That said, I could care less, so someone have at it LOL!
 
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DJD100 said:
Geez, he's playing by hand so that eliminates the test for comparison purposes
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For me, it absolutely does. The difference is easily detectable playing in real time, and I've taken into account everything you've mentioned (it ain't the cab, reverb, IR length, input settings, etc, etc, etc). And I've stated what firmware I'm using. IMO, there is no substitute for actually playing through the units. Clips are a distant second. And sure, a single firmware release could potentially change everything and render all of this obsolete. And sure, it's possible I'm wrong about the modeling and the source of the difference is something I have yet to identify. But, based on what I currently know, I stand by my original post here; comparing the II to the FM3 is not the same as comparing the II to the Axe-FX III, based on my observations that the FM9 and III are not identical. If you want to compare a II to a III, compare it to a III.

Edit: I've been at the FM9 all day programming for a road gig. Holy fuck this thing sounds great. And the FC system is superb. I wasn't 100% sold on it when I first bought it, but I totally am now (smoothing notwithstanding). I don't even miss my Gordius.
 
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JTI said:
all those great albums were made by arguing about stupid shit like this.
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There were perfectionist bands like Pink Floyd and Steely Dan who might have argued relative minutia like this, but in the persuit of making it great.

Then there's players/bands who find a good tone and go with it not worrying or aguing about any stupid shit.
 
JTI said:
I remember that time all those great albums were made by arguing about stupid shit like this.
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A lot of great albums were made with the band members practically at each other's throats over issues just as trivial. But yeah, at this point I have nothing to add and it's becoming circular. I'm out.
 
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