AXE FX 2 - gave up trying to make this work in a live situation :(

axecellent

axecellent

Inspired
well i've had the axe fx 2 for about a month or more now and here's my honest opinion.

let me first start by saying that I've played thru real amps all my life and I've had a lot of nice ones along the way.

One thing I've noticed about the axe fx 2 is that you really have to know what setup you intend to use it for and what will work best for you in your performance situation.
I initially bought the axe fx 2 for recording purposes only...then I decided that maybe I'd like to try it live...
so, I bought 2 QSC K12's and 2 QSC K subs and the whole she-bang!....tried that, sounded pretty good...but in the back of my mind I was still trying to make it sound like my amps...no go.

so, then I decided to go the "power amp" and 4x12 cab route and I went out and bought a Matrix Gt1500FXBD to power my marshall 4x12 cab...no go.

So then I decided to go the 4CM route....and use my marshall and use the axe just for effects....I was getting a lot of buzz and loss of tone and decided that....no go again.

well, this brings me to my conclusion about the AXE FX 2 in my personal experience....its a great tool for recording for me.
as for using it for my live guitar tones, its a no go....I'm very sorry to say this but in my honest opinion I think my real amps are better for me.
My ear is just too good it seems to be tricked to think that this sounds as good as the real thing.

I've tried just about everything....and today i plugged into my marshall straight in with no effects and just a les paul....voila!!! that is the tone . :)

over the past week I've used the axe fx 2 with my band and I've come to the conclusion that unless I put the countless hours into building presets for every tune we are covering...the axe is just not going to cut it....it was more of a headache for me personally.

I don't mean to be dissing the product....because I believe this box is terrific in some ways...but this is a review section of the forum so I figured I'd give my two cents worth. I really don't need the added stress this thing has added to my life this past month...I was looking for a solution to not having to drag around my 4x12 cab and head and I suddenly noticed that my new setup was getting even bigger than my original setup...lol

I can't stress how great the AXE FX 2 is for recording! 100% happy with it for this purpose.
using it for my live guitar tones...thats another story...i wish i had the patience to setup a live rig and tweak it to make it sound "real" but every preset i built sounded not as great as the feeling of having that head and cab by your side on stage....if you know what I mean.

Its not for everyone in a live situation i guess....

Cheers! :) and thanks everyone for all your help....you've all helped so much and I just want to let you know that I really appreciate that. i look forward to hearing all your recording tips... :)
 
True that it sounds different than an "in the room" amp when run FRFR... It sounds like a studio mic'ed amp.

If I remember correctly, when you set up the Axe to run through a real cab, you have to set something in the speaker parameters (I don't remember exactly which setting) so that it interacts correctly with the real cab. It's kind of a "use your ears" thing as far as getting it adjusted right. Don't know if that's something you were already aware of already or not.

If not, perhaps someone else will chime in with details on exactly how that should be set up.

EDIT: Did a little bit of digging. Speaker resonance is what I was thinking of. Here's the Wiki on it:

AMP (block): all parameters - Axe-Fx II Wiki

Tutorials and How-Tos - Fractal Audio Systems Wiki

I haven't messed with these in a while, but when I was running the Axe through my cab, I found that adjusting the low resonance frequency to where it (for lack of a better word) resonated seemed to help the Axe feel as though it was working with the cab rather than just running through it.
 
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axecellent said:
One thing I've noticed about the axe fx 2 is that you really have to know what setup you intend to use it for and what will work best for you in your performance situation.
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True.

so, then I decided to go the "power amp" and 4x12 cab route and I went out and bought a Matrix Gt1500FXBD to power my marshall 4x12 cab...no go.
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Should have worked. It's a preamp and there are lots of reports where the Axe does a wonderful job this way. Did you try plugging the Axe into the power amp of your Marshall (with Cab and Poweramp Simulation off of course)?
 
Well good luck man.
This unit does require time but a lot of critical listening to the details and working out things in the patches would do it for you.
I don't know if you have seen Scott Peterson's video, but that is a really good place to start.
Simplify your patch first, build a strong basis and then place the add ons. Check out the Axe Fest 2012 videos on youtube and you'll find what you need.
If you are totally convinced with your decision it's all good but a solution for your situation is in the Axe FxII you just need to re-think the process.

All the best.
 
Rane said:
EDIT: Did a little bit of digging. Speaker resonance is what I was thinking of. Here's the Wiki on it:

AMP (block): all parameters - Axe-Fx II Wiki

I haven't messed with these in a while, but when I was running the Axe through my cab, I found that adjusting the low resonance frequency to where it (for lack of a better word) resonated seemed to help the Axe feel as though it was working with the cab rather than just running through it.
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Just to clarify, this is with a normal guitar cab, and cab sims in the Axe turned OFF?
 
yeah I tried all of that...but it seems i may be missing something small in the equation here....? don't know. :)
 
hey man, i've seen all scotts videos from axe fest...they were a big help....I have a vision in my head of how i'd like my guitar to sound live..
I'd really like to have the sound of my marshall dry...and then add the matrix and axe fx to a wet cabinet....then I could be in heaven i think... :)
 
I think the Axe does a wonderful job through the VHT 2/50/2 & VHT deliverance speaker cab.
I`m a new axe owner but I`ve had several Amp modellers. To tweek .and listen...I think its important to be connected whith the poweramp & cab at the volume you usually use it.
In my opinion presets tweeked with headphones or studiomonitors almoust never sound good when used in a tube poweramp... A tube poweramp changes the sound.
And as mentioned .. simplify at first..
In my setting I needed to "treeble down" the AxeII the global EQ a bit.

Thanks for the advise aboute speaker resonance
 
axecellent, too bad you had problems with the Axe-II for live use. Personally I just think these kind of situations are a mental thing. Since let's face it, for live use there's no better solution from the crowd's perspective than to use the Axe-Fx cab simulation into FOH. It will kill every real amp mic'ed on the stage with bleed and inconsistant mic placement etc. So what's left? The way you hear yourself when playing live which is very inconsistant no matter what gear you use.

I don't believe the issue here is about using a wrong power amp or cabinet. If you used your Axe-Fx in 4CM there should be no loss in tone if you compare that to using any other effects for that use. So if this didn't work a simple "no go" doesn't give me the full picture of what went wrong. :)

Anyways, I went through this also. Got the Axe-Fx Standard and then got more real tube amps and started using those but whenever I started adding effects into my analog rig I realized that there was no point in using anything else but the Axe-Fx. All the connections and batteries or powering the pedals and looping then... uhhhh... one major "NO GO" for me at least. :D

However there is something very magical in just running your guitar straight into an amp + cab and the way it sounds so raw and hairy with all it's flaws and quirks. The closest I've gotten to this was to simply disable the noise gate in the Axe-Fx and find the right IR to run it through. :) Anyways my conclusion at this time is that "how the amp sounds to me" is not important if I can hear my playing. It's important that the crowd gets the best sound quality. :)
 
Rane said:
True that it sounds different than an "in the room" amp when run FRFR... It sounds like a studio mic'ed amp.
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I've always been more of an 'electronic guitarist' than most, so for me, that is the beauty of FRFR - I get the clarity I yearn for, and it DOES work in live settings for me.

BUT: I plug my SG into an overdriven Dumble on my Axe II, and it's pretty damn close to an 'amp experience' for me: punch right to the gut - that visceral kick you get from a real amp is there - it just takes some tweaking.

I doubt it's that your ears are 'too good'. Many, many die-hard amp guys have sold their collections, replacing them with this box. Some of them (like me, actually) HATED previous modelers. The first time I played a POD, I nearly puked - I was like, 'This toy is the future? Then give me the friggin' past!'. I tried the Ultra back in '06 or '07 as a lark - they had a 2 week return policy, so what the hell. Within 30 seconds, I knew this was the warmest, sweetest, most organic-sounding piece of digital wizardry I've ever touched (and, having been a studio owner, I've touched a lot!).

I tried the QSC's myself, and they didn't work for me. But I have had good results with both my (custom) FRFR enclosure, and using my (custom) single EVM-12 ported guitar cab. Can I get it to sound 100% identical with my Twin, driving the same cab? No, I can't - I don't have the patience. The big breakthrough for me came when I stopped trying to exactly match a tone on my amp (a/b'ing back and forth), and just started dialing stuff in. The result, for me, is a BETTER sound than I've EVER had - kind of an idealized Fender amp sound. Like the best Fender amp I've ever played, without caps going bad, tubes going bad etc. Granted, I'm not a Marshall guy - but there are a bajillion of them on this site that swear by the FX II.

But be that as it may - whether your ears or better, or their tweaking skills and patience are is irrelevent: the bottom line is it doesn't work for you in live applications. It'd be nice if there was a workshop where we could get the heavys - like Scott Peterson, so help you... oh wait, there was, on the West Coast! Well, maybe one day there'll be Fractal clinics all over the world to help guys like you dial in the perfect sound.

Until then, enjoy your amp, and enjoy the AXE when you're recording.
 
Just share your preset and we can have a look/listen at it. There's where I start with people.

Then I have people make a list of what they already have, like and want to do. Put it down in writing.

I do personal consults with people if they want it; some want to get fast-tracked; some want hands-on tutoring.

In the end, if you want something from this box, it can most likely do it. If it doesn't do it to your preference over another given solution; then it may not be the best tool for you. This is all entirely personal, subjective and down to the individual. Of all the boxes that exist, this is the most versatile and powerful signal processor. That doesn't mean it's the ideal solution for everyone though there are many here that can step up and try to help if you want it.
 
After it's all said and done, one thing still concerning the op is 'time'. Even if Scott's video suggests 'simple', that simple might not sound good to someone else's ears (just like Scott ALWAYS says, it's personal). And for some, in order for them to hear what they WANT to hear they need to tweak it and that's where the term 'plug and play' goes out the window.

I know there are "magic" or "powerful" params in the amp block but most of us just want to plug and play, which we all know the Axe is not a plug and play machine.

Anyways~ try doing what people are suggesting and if that still doesn't suit your boat, go rock out with your amp! and record with the Axe ;)

cheers
 
I had a personal battle with going FRFR,myself. What I realized after much comparison was (It doesn't feel like an amp in the room exactly,lots of variables! ) At first I ran my Ultra through a tube power amp and 2x12 THD cab with M75 Scumbacks and loved it !Totally worked , sound and feel of real amp to me,but when I put a mic in front of it and recorded or listened through FOH it wasn't even close to what I was hearing and feeling! Of course my listening position was totally different from the mic's
Then started comparing FRFR direct to micing cab ,FRFR blew it away,that's when I realized is it all about me,or about what I want to sound like to everyone else? Gotta choose the latter , I've also played through some incredible real amps,but gotta say when I listened back to recordings or from out front they never sounded close to what i heard on stage! So bottom line, is it only yourself you want to please? If not , a little time spent and reajusting you perspective will reap great rewards for you in the future when you get use to it!!!

Oh! also , the addition of the looper brought a huge realization to my attention! When I record a loop and play it back to tweak presets,things I thought I was hearing holding my guitar tweaking ,simply wasn,t there! Changes that seemed large weren't so noticable when I looped and played back, MUCH of the perception is Feel not the actual tone!!!!
 
dkijc said:
After it's all said and done, one thing still concerning the op is 'time'. Even if Scott's video suggests 'simple', that simple might not sound good to someone else's ears (just like Scott ALWAYS says, it's personal). And for some, in order for them to hear what they WANT to hear they need to tweak it and that's where the term 'plug and play' goes out the window.

I know there are "magic" or "powerful" params in the amp block but most of us just want to plug and play, which we all know the Axe is not a plug and play machine.

Anyways~ try doing what people are suggesting and if that still doesn't suit your boat, go rock out with your amp! and record with the Axe ;)

cheers
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Quite true: one of my buddies wants one for the studio, but is too intimidated by the tweak factor for live. For me, I've gotten a few presets that do what I need, and I never adjust 'em live - they just work - whether I'm just using my enclosure, or using it plus a send to the PA - it just plain works - once I dialed it in.

The difference between me and geniuses like Scott and Simeon is that while I CAN dial in a basic tone, but I CAN'T hear some really cool amp or amp/effect sound and dial it in. I've never been able to really match some sounds I love (Bridge of Sighs, the break on Incubus' 'have you ever', Owner of a lonely heart lead etc.) - but we've got all these tweakaholic geniuses who CAN. I remember the first time I saw Yek's complex FX matrix - far, far more complex than what I'd dreamed up. Far more flexible and versatile too.

THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF THIS COMMUNITY, and all of the generous, selfless people in it.

I say take Scott up on his offer. I bet he can get you there. Once you're there, A/B it blindfolded to prevent self-bias, and I'll bet you'll love it.
 
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