AustinBuddy Video: How to Properly Set Preset Levels

austinbuddy

austinbuddy

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Hi everyone:

This video has been on my to-do list for some time to complete. I find some newer Fractal users don't follow these useful guidelines when dialing in sounds, and then express unhappiness about their self-designed preset levels or tone when playing live, for example. We sure don't want any of that!

The full 17 minute version is below.

Just took that amount of time to go over and demonstrate concepts and provide examples, even after editing; forgive all the jumpy editing -- it would have been even longer with out the cuts. Ironically, my video tutorial on programming a killer Jim '67 London preset on the Axe-Fx was also 17 minutes -- TED Talk lengths I guess!)



My hope is this will really help you set your own presets levels great for both DAW recording and for live stage use. This is all the same methodology I used in making the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack and leveling all those preset tones consistently for playback.

Enjoy, and I'll try to answer any other questions you might have.

NOTE: Edited video for some fixes.
 
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Good, informative video, @austinbuddy !


A couple of additions to the AX8 info:

- Yes, there is a VU meter in the AX8. From the main Footswitch screen, page over four times. The coolest feature of the AX8's VU meter: Once you call it up, it stays parked there, no matter what you do in AX8-Edit or on the front panel knobs and footswitches.

- The AX8 has an Instrument Input Pad that does essentially the same thing as the Axe's INSTR IN.
 
Great tutorial! Thanks! But I have one question about making the presets for the live use. If I playing in IE system, is it necessary to tweak all the presets on the 92 db loudness? I suppose in my earphones I'll have some lack of hight freqs after that...
 
oldstar1975 said:
If I playing in IE system, is it necessary to tweak all the presets on the 92 db loudness? I suppose in my earphones I'll have some lack of hight freqs after that...
Click to expand...

Great question. I don't have a pair of in-ears to test with (yet, thinking of some WesTones).

But my sense is: you are tuning your preset tones/sounds for the audience in the room to hear through FOH PA, and at least 92 db loudness volume is important for that to get the preset EQ right.

The question is thus, can you program/play your presets through amplification, and not do it using In Ears? Then I'd trust it.

Intuitively, I'm just not sure tweaking through In Ears is the same -- though I don't have a way to empirically test it (yet). It may work for some folks and not others; it may vary based on In Ear brand, etc. The touring pros I know talk about the "thump" of a guitar cab they miss when using In Ears...
 
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Hey Austin Buddy, thanks for taking the time to put this video together ... much appreciated.

One question for you, why do you feel it's important for the axe to be putting out unity gain? In your video, I think you are suggesting that the digital levels be set at -12db via the preset amp controls and that the front panel out1 be set at 11:30 for unity gain and that any volume changes be made with the amplification gear ( monitors/pa ) and not the front panel out1. What would be the problem if out1 were higher or lower than unity gain? It certainly is more convenient to adjust volume via the front panel rather than the monitors or pa, what's the downside? Thanks ...
 
Hi Quark:

The problem is the signal coming into a mixer or DAW a lot over -12db can be too hot and cause problems. Transients or excessive bass can cause a spike that might digitally clip.

You need Headroom in the output signal. Unity gain gives you that. That leaves the best flexibility for the mixing engineer, whether recording or live. They don’t have to worry about boosting much nor padding much your signal. They can add or subtract gain based on what their own equipment requires if the incoming signal is unity gain. This is especially true if you use real life pedals, or a solo scene gain boost inside a preset.

When a digital signal approaches -0db/reaches it, bad things happen. There is a solid reason the Fractal factory presets average around -12db and not -6db.

There is no law against cranking your other amplifier — whether studio speakers or power amp into cabinet— to make it loud as you want. Let the amp do the work!
 
quark said:
One question for you, why do you feel it's important for the axe to be putting out unity gain? In your video, I think you are suggesting that the digital levels be set at -12db via the preset amp controls and that the front panel out1 be set at 11:30 for unity gain and that any volume changes be made with the amplification gear ( monitors/pa ) and not the front panel out1. What would be the problem if out1 were higher or lower than unity gain? It certainly is more convenient to adjust volume via the front panel rather than the monitors or pa, what's the downside? Thanks ...
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@austinbuddy 's point is to get ideal levels into the DAW with minimal fuss. Sometimes live is a different matter, and I set the Output Level knobs to noon. With inexperienced house engineers, this saves me from "Man, your feed is too hot!" It also gives me some much-needed breathing room in my monitor feed. Stage levels at the show are not always the same as stage levels during sound check. :)
 
Thanks for doing this - great video. I must admit though my presets are leveled, I do have some issues between a few - esp clean presets where I play a Godin nylon...will revisit them all! But I also never even thought start with the master on my AX8 cranked all the way up. Hmm. Need to rethink a few things!

EDIT - OUTPUT LEVEL (not amp master...meant the unit master output...)
 
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Rex said:
Not the Master. The Output Level.
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;) I bet that's what he meant!

A trick I have been guilty of: when I used my Axe-Fx XL live, would set output1 at noon....and slowly through the gig I'd "adjust it" ...to about 2:00 after a few songs...so that does let you goose it a little, for 'the big solo" as everyone else plays. But with Scenes now, I just up a Scene by 3.5 db and that accomplishes the same thing!

So I suppose technically on AX8 you could start it at "8" and give yourself a little wiggle... but this is only for LIVE use.

;)
 
I see this on a regular basis, standing next to the drum kit. Only the kick is miked. Running through some tunes at sound check, I dial in enough monitor to be useful to me without contributing to unruly stage volume. Half an hour and a few hundred bodies later, I'm buried because the drummer is hitting hard to fill up the deadened space, and I need to turn up my monitor to hear myself. Don't want to be reaching around a wedge at that point. That's why I always leave myself headroom at the front panel.
 
Rex said:
Good, informative video, @austinbuddy !


A couple of additions to the AX8 info:

- Yes, there is a VU meter in the AX8. From the main Footswitch screen, page over four times. The coolest feature of the AX8's VU meter: Once you call it up, it stays parked there, no matter what you do in AX8-Edit or on the front panel knobs and footswitches.

- The AX8 has an Instrument Input Pad that does essentially the same thing as the Axe's INSTR IN.
Click to expand...

Fixed. Thanks as always Rex! You Rock!
 
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Also ... would be remiss if I did not point out there are several pre-existing (and more in-depth) videos by our very own forum moderator Chris that covers various concepts that I also covered in my all-in-one video:







Also one on preset leveling from the amazing Scott Peterson:



Always give due to those who walked before you on the path!
 
Rex said:
@austinbuddy 's point is to get ideal levels into the DAW with minimal fuss. Sometimes live is a different matter, and I set the Output Level knobs to noon. With inexperienced house engineers, this saves me from "Man, your feed is too hot!" It also gives me some much-needed breathing room in my monitor feed. Stage levels at the show are not always the same as stage levels during sound check. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks guys for the responses. I'm still wondering though whether there is something special about coming out of the axe with unity gain. I understand what you are getting at in terms of having the out1 signal at -12db but there are many way to get there ... e.g. preset amp level high, out1 low, preset amp level low, out1 high, lots of different combinations of preset amp level and out1 setting will get you to -12db. Is there something special about the combination of out1 level at unity gain and amp preset level at whatever it takes to get -12db? Just want to make sure I'm not missing something here that more experienced axe users are aware of.
 
austinbuddy said:
;) I bet that's what he meant!

A trick I have been guilty of: when I used my Axe-Fx XL live, would set output1 at noon....and slowly through the gig I'd "adjust it" ...to about 2:00 after a few songs...so that does let you goose it a little, for 'the big solo" as everyone else plays. But with Scenes now, I just up a Scene by 3.5 db and that accomplishes the same thing!

So I suppose technically on AX8 you could start it at "8" and give yourself a little wiggle... but this is only for LIVE use.

;)
Click to expand...
Hi Austin ,
I have a question ... is it really important for output 1 level on the front panel of the Axe to be set at noon , why this special setting and not 3 or 9 o clock for example ...
Thanks for answer
Fafa
 
fafakiwi said:
Hi Austin ,
I have a question ... is it really important for output 1 level on the front panel of the Axe to be set at noon , why this special setting and not 3 or 9 o clock for example ...
Thanks for answer
Fafa
Click to expand...

If you are using an Axe-FX and you are recording or playing live with the SP/DIF out (digital) and not using the XLRs, then Output1 does not matter. Because on an Axe-Fx, Output1 does not control the digital signal output level -- your preset/amp block level settings (and others) do. (*this is not the case with an AX8 though*)

If you are using the XLRs out, would you want you want the output to reflect the TRUE digital signal of your preset (in other words, be identical to the true digital signal's output level in the unit = unity gain between the two?) That's where setting the Output1 knob becomes so critical. The video I did tries to demonstrate this.

Check it out for yourself: do a test on your system. Take a Fractal Factory preset (or a 700+ Naked Amps Tonepack preset) and go into your DAW through BOTH the SP/DIF and the XLR, two channels. One guitar and preset, but two outputs. Make sure the DAW channels are set with NO other gain or mic preamps, etc. AND make sure your DAW fader is to to be "post-fader operation" (where the fader itself has NO impact on the incoming signal strength, only affects how loud the channel plays through your monitors).

Now play the preset, try with the Axe-X Output at 3, noon, and 9. At what position does the Ouput1 knob most closely visually match signal level that you see in the DAW mixer compared to the SP/DIF direct digital signal (which is the REAL signal level digitally inside the preset)? You'll probably find it to be 11:30 to noon, roughly. It will depend a little on your amp type played (clean versus heavy).

Now -- the point of gain staging is for your preset signal, your transients, chugs, all of it -- to come out of the Axe-Fx at about an AVERAGE of -12db. Not at -18db, not at -6 db (too close to zero).

You certainly CAN boost the output past the "true" digital signal level, using your Output1 knob. It's not going to change the tone or sound timbre technically (although Fletcher Munson curve effect can make you think it does). But if you do -- are you hitting your DAW, or your MIXER, or your Power Amp-2-Speaker too hard and eliminating helpful headroom, when instead these latter items could be the best place to turn up the overall volume to get your desired playing/listening volume right?

That's what gain staging and leveling is all about. Digital pros will tell you that recording to an output level of -18db into a DAW is fine if you are doing g 24 bit sampling in a DAW for example. But I prefer -12db, and I find most of the Fractal Factory amp presets also come in around there too.

So - I hope that helps!
 
austinbuddy said:
If you are using an Axe-FX and you are recording or playing live with the SP/DIF out (digital) and not using the XLRs, then Output1 does not matter. Because on an Axe-Fx, Output1 does not control the digital signal output level -- your preset/amp block level settings (and others) do. (*this is not the case with an AX8 though*)

If you are using the XLRs out, would you want you want the output to reflect the TRUE digital signal of your preset (in other words, be identical to the true digital signal's output level in the unit = unity gain between the two?) That's where setting the Output1 knob becomes so critical. The video I did tries to demonstrate this.

Check it out for yourself: do a test on your system. Take a Fractal Factory preset (or a 700+ Naked Amps Tonepack preset) and go into your DAW through BOTH the SP/DIF and the XLR, two channels. One guitar and preset, but two outputs. Make sure the DAW channels are set with NO other gain or mic preamps, etc. AND make sure your DAW fader is to to be "post-fader operation" (where the fader itself has NO impact on the incoming signal strength, only affects how loud the channel plays through your monitors).

Now play the preset, try with the Axe-X Output at 3, noon, and 9. At what position does the Ouput1 knob most closely visually match signal level that you see in the DAW mixer compared to the SP/DIF direct digital signal (which is the REAL signal level digitally inside the preset)? You'll probably find it to be 11:30 to noon, roughly. It will depend a little on your amp type played (clean versus heavy).

Now -- the point of gain staging is for your preset signal, your transients, chugs, all of it -- to come out of the Axe-Fx at about an AVERAGE of -12db. Not at -18db, not at -6 db (too close to zero).

You certainly CAN boost the output past the "true" digital signal level, using your Output1 knob. It's not going to change the tone or sound timbre technically (although Fletcher Munson curve effect can make you think it does). But if you do -- are you hitting your DAW, or your MIXER, or your Power Amp-2-Speaker too hard and eliminating helpful headroom, when instead these latter items could be the best place to turn up the overall volume to get your desired playing/listening volume right?

That's what gain staging and leveling is all about. Digital pros will tell you that recording to an output level of -18db into a DAW is fine if you are doing g 24 bit sampling in a DAW for example. But I prefer -12db, and I find most of the Fractal Factory amp presets also come in around there too.

So - I hope that helps!
Click to expand...
Hi Austin ,
Thanks very much for your answer.... I ve asked you this question because my Axe is plug into two Xi tones cab , on these cabs you have a feature , a special mode that allows you to set them to perfect output ...
I try to explain .... you must put your loudest preset and set the output of the axe at his maximum ,
There are leads on the cabs and they should light as same on the Axe , tou list set the volume of the cabs just before clipping the cabs ....
So for me I must set my cabs to 4 ... but after , if I set the Axe to 12 o clock after returning to playing mode it’s really too loud !!!!
So shall I keep the volume of my cabs to 4 and diminish the axe output volume or set the axe at noon or diminish cabs level ....
Do not know ... your opinion would be very helpful..
Thanks Austin
Fafa
 
jw3571 said:
Question on volume. So when I set my output 1 on my axe to noon some of the patches are ear bleeding loud. I only have my frfr monitors(presonnus Sceptre 8) turned up to 3. I assume you'd recommend keeping the output level at noon. On the patches that are so loud, do you recommend me turn my monitors down even farther, or is better to just adjust the level in the amp block?
Click to expand...
if only some presets are loud, you would probably want to adjust the presets, not turn your monitors up and down. because then you'd have to turn them back up.

but are you comparing those levels to the VU meter? that's what really makes the difference.
 
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