Atomic CLR - expectation/experience

[LVC]

There's a lot to this and it has everything - EVERYTHING - to do with your cab IR's.

I'd love a chance to hang out with everyone and my rig right now; but that's probably not realistic. I've had many - and I mean MANY - hardcore tube skeptics over to check this new-fangled black box and crazy wedge over. I let them decide for themselves after helping them get the tones they like knowing what I know about doing that.

There are quite a few guys running a II with a CLR because of that. No smoke, just real life. It'd behoove people to actually hang out in person with other people that truly do GET it if they can't figure it out on their own. Maybe just maybe, it wouldn't be so easy to cast aspersions - subtle or not - because someone other than you has the 411 on how to get it singing. FWIW, I don't wear dresses. Just sayin'.

Scott it is OK if your wear dresses .. however I draw the line with Tutus.


What I am saying has nothing to do with brand x or y -- a monitor is a monitor and it is not going to sound/feel like the real deal.

Hear is a simple test

Work your EQ magic and put any monitor (hell go ahead and put two) on stage next to a 4 x 12 cabinet pushed by a power amp and tell me the experience is going to be the same.

I will even go this far... put a black curtain in front of the monitor and the cab (so nobody can see) and hand a guitar to someone to play and let him/her tell you which one sounds and feels better.

Again I am not saying some of the monitors available today are not awesome ... hell I gig with one and love it.

 

[Analog]

I'd love a chance to hang out with everyone and my rig right now'.

Scott. If I had a CLR to test with would you be willing to shoot through any lightly overdriven patch of any Marshall w/1960 cab for my comparisons? Would this be a faithful enough reproduction of your rig?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Scott it is OK if your wear dresses .. however I draw the line with Tutus.


What I am saying has nothing to do with brand x or y -- a monitor is a monitor and it is not going to sound/feel like the real deal.

Hear is a simple test

Work your EQ magic and put any monitor (hell go ahead and put two) on stage next to a 4 x 12 cabinet pushed by a power amp and tell me the experience is going to be the same.

I will even go this far... put a black curtain in front of the monitor and the cab (so nobody can see) and hand a guitar to someone to play and let him/her tell you which one sounds and feels better.

Again I am not saying some of the monitors available today are not awesome ... hell I gig with one and love it.

Laz, you like to have the power amp conventional cab, you've made it *abundently* clear. So please keep your attention focused on what you can positively post about - threads about how great a power amp and conventional cab are. This negative nelly attitude of yours on every CLR thread that runs grates on nerves. You don't like FRFR. We *get* it. Clearly. Telling us every few days or weeks on every thread about the CLR doesn't make your point any more or less clear. Anyone not getting your preference by now isn't going to be served any better by you repeating it endlessly very few days/weeks.

You don't seem the grasp the fundamentals here. Please read on...

If you want to compare apples to apples, take your power amp and conventional cab(s) - be they 112, 212, 412, 410 or whatever - and mic them up in a different room and compare that played through a FRFR monitor of your choice to the FRFR monitor of choice. If anyone hasn't grasped that yet, they need to get back to modeling 101 and understand the paradigm in play a little more. The modeling involved in FRFR incorporates the mic and mic pre. It's the whole system of guitar signal; it does NOT stop at the cab. So comparing a conventional cab to a FRFR rig is apples/oranges. Modeling 101. And yes, it will be EXACTLY the same experience as the real deal -but you need to include the mic and mic pre and you'll have to play it back over something.

Scott. If I had a CLR to test with would you be willing to shoot through any lightly overdriven patch of any Marshall w/1960 cab for my comparisons? Would this be a faithful enough reproduction of your rig?

Yes, take your amp and cab and mic them up to the best of your ability in another room. Then take that signal and play it through any sort of monitor you choose and compare that to my rig and the CLR. That'll be straight up comparison. And I guarantee you beyond any shadow of a doubt you'll be majorly impressed.

And if you like your tones better than mine, just do an IR of your cab with your mic, drop that in my Fractal and then do a Tone Match of the amp against the closest base amp in the Axe-FX II. And hang on to your jaw because it might hit the floor.

 

[levipeto]

... on stage next to a 4 x 12 cabinet pushed by a power amp and tell me the experience is going to be the same.

Yeah, put 4 x CLRs on stage and tell me your the experience.

You only had 1 CLR. I have 2 which can easily push more air than a 4x12cab, but to make it a fair comparison you need 4 speakers.

So, stack up 4 CLRs and complain about how much air they can push, then.

 

[Sixstring]

Scott it is OK if your wear dresses .. however I draw the line with Tutus.


What I am saying has nothing to do with brand x or y -- a monitor is a monitor and it is not going to sound/feel like the real deal.

Hear is a simple test

Work your EQ magic and put any monitor (hell go ahead and put two) on stage next to a 4 x 12 cabinet pushed by a power amp and tell me the experience is going to be the same.

I will even go this far... put a black curtain in front of the monitor and the cab (so nobody can see) and hand a guitar to someone to play and let him/her tell you which one sounds and feels better.

Again I am not saying some of the monitors available today are not awesome ... hell I gig with one and love it.

The other thing your not factoring in here is coverage, we all know that a guitar cab sucks badly at this and FR will always out shine in this aera. If you can get close enough for most if not all to hear that it sounds genuin then what else matters?

 

[Rocket Brother]

I just read through this thread and I still can't get over how divided some are with this subject. It's a matter of preference and application, nothing more nothing less.

It's the same in EVERY SINGLE CLR related thread, the VAST MAJORITY as in >99% of people who have actually tried a CLR (key point !) absolutely loves them and wouldn't trade them for anything else.
This includes many professional users who have extensive experience with every type of rig construction out there, with playing any kind and size of venue out there, extensive experience with a ton of the traditional "golden standard" and vintage guitar and effects gear and experience from working in top tier recording studios, which should lend some weight to their opinion and endorsement.
We don't all have to love or choose the same gear, and some just like a regular guitar cab better, so personal taste and opinion is absolutely fine, but there are very, very, very few among those who have actually tried the CLRs that don't like them.

Generally in every CLR related thread one particular person will enter the thread exclusively to troll and bad mouth the CLR - which he only owned briefly and never got to work for him because of pilot error in the patch creation, not because of hardware insufficiency.
That whole thing is painstakingly documented in it's own thread.
The identity of that person is the easiest riddle in the world if you've followed more than one CLR related thread, and the person in question have crashed many CLR threads that others were enjoying and learning from, just so he could yet again follow his anti-CLR and anti-Atomic agenda - frankly, it got really old a long time ago, and I can for the life of me not understand that the moderators of this forum is shutting down good threads instead of reprimanding or suspending that forumite.

 

[cobbler]

It's the same in EVERY SINGLE CLR related thread, the VAST MAJORITY as in >99% of people who have actually tried a CLR (key point !) absolutely loves them and wouldn't trade them for anything else.
This includes many professional users who have extensive experience with every type of rig construction out there, with playing any kind and size of venue out there, extensive experience with a ton of the traditional "golden standard" and vintage guitar and effects gear and experience from working in top tier recording studios, which should lend some weight to their opinion and endorsement.
We don't all have to love or choose the same gear, and some just like a regular guitar cab better, so personal taste and opinion is absolutely fine, but there are very, very, very few among those who have actually tried the CLRs that don't like them.

Generally in every CLR related thread one particular person will enter the thread exclusively to troll and bad mouth the CLR - which he only owned briefly and never got to work for him because of pilot error in the patch creation, not because of hardware insufficiency.
That whole thing is painstakingly documented in it's own thread.
The identity of that person is the easiest riddle in the world if you've followed more than one CLR related thread, and the person in question have crashed many CLR threads that others were enjoying and learning from, just so he could yet again follow his anti-CLR and anti-Atomic agenda - frankly, it got really old a long time ago, and I can for the life of me not understand that the moderators of this forum is shutting down good threads instead of reprimanding or suspending that forumite.

Even though you are correct in that everyone knows this person and what has been happening for sometime I think the veiling approach is the way to go so I'll be blunt.

Laz, can you please take your anti CLR sentiments elsewhere? Seriously! We all know the story by now. You felt the CLR was boomy. It was pointed out that your patch was boomy and you just couldn't accept that you could be wrong and for some reason took it very personally. From that thread forward you have trolled EVERY CLR thread and clearly most everyone is tiring of your childish antics. Save the "I have the right to express my opinion" retort as well since it holds no weight in this circumstance where you clearly have an agenda.

Please, I am asking you man to man, to give it a rest. You went another route and are happy with your choice. That is absolutely great. The vast majority of the people trying and or buying the CLR's like their choice as well. It's a win/win. There is no need to rain on every CLR parade. Please, let it go.

 

[dextersky]

Please, I am asking you man to man, to give it a rest. You went another route and are happy with your choice. That is absolutely great. The vast majority of the people trying and or buying the CLR's like their choice as well. It's a win/win. There is no need to rain on every CLR parade. Please, let it go.

+1

 

[BIGDOG]

If you want the sound and feel of a real cab reacting with your fiddle and blowing your hair back you need a power amp and a real cab.

Neither the CLR (which I owned) nor the Matrix passive (which I own) will give you that. IMO anybody that tells you different is blowing smoke up you dress.



No monitor is going to do that.




Is it going to sound like you miked your amp in the next room and listening to it through monitors? -- you bet.

are they going to sound great? -- you bet.

Will you be able to get feedback and dance with your monitor? -- you bet.

It it the same experience as standing in front of a real cab driven by a power amp? -- no way.

I agree 100% I have also gone the amp/cab then 2 CLR's and now back to amp/cab (matrix gt1000fx and DV Mark 4x12)still have my CLR's they are awesome monitors and pa cabs but they couldnt keep up with my other guitarists Marshall rig. Mind you Im in a Metallica Tribute so it may not be the best solution for that type of band, maybe a single guitar band doing rock and blues it would perform better.
Im talking about volume not quality of sound the Clr's sound fantastic,
but as I said a metallica tribute is not the best use for the CLR's

 

[LVC]

Even though you are correct in that everyone knows this person and what has been happening for sometime I think the veiling approach is the way to go so I'll be blunt.

Laz, can you please take your anti CLR sentiments elsewhere? Seriously! We all know the story by now. You felt the CLR was boomy. It was pointed out that your patch was boomy and you just couldn't accept that you could be wrong and for some reason took it very personally. From that thread forward you have trolled EVERY CLR thread and clearly most everyone is tiring of your childish antics. Save the "I have the right to express my opinion" retort as well since it holds no weight in this circumstance where you clearly have an agenda.

Please, I am asking you man to man, to give it a rest. You went another route and are happy with your choice. That is absolutely great. The vast majority of the people trying and or buying the CLR's like their choice as well. It's a win/win. There is no need to rain on every CLR parade. Please, let it go.

Dude who is talking about the CLR?

I am talking about monitors in general including the one that I own and gig with.


I do not care if you use Matrix, Atomic, or any other FRFR monitor solution they are monitors... period.


Telling someone on a forum that is looking for an in your face real tube amp/cab experience that he/she will get it with a monitor solution is plain false and misleading.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Dude who is talking about the CLR?

I am talking about monitors in general including the one that I own and gig with.


I do not care if you use Matrix, Atomic, or any other FRFR monitor solution they are monitors... period.


Telling someone on a forum that is looking for an in your face real tube amp/cab experience that he/she will get it with a monitor solution is plain false and misleading.

Tell that to Tim Pierce; he stated in a recent interview that he enjoyed using the Axe-FX through monitors because it was in-your-face as compared to amps. Google him if you don't recognize his name. I don't think he was false or misleading. Tim Pierce Guitar Tim Pierce Guitar Home Page » Tim Pierce Guitar


Check it at 25:50 for his comments about modeling and specific to the Axe-FX II.

Oh, and Laz... read the subject title of the thread. Who's talking about the CLR? Every person on this thread.

You really need to check yourself and hold yourself to the same standard you are fond of holding everyone else to.

 

[LVC]

Tell that to Tim Pierce; he stated in a recent interview that he enjoyed using the Axe-FX through monitors because it was in-your-face as compared to amps. Google him if you don't recognize his name. I don't think he was false or misleading.

I can google quotes from people that say they talk to aliens ... what is your point?

 

[paulbag]

I seem to remember you accusing Scott of "working" for Atomic and telling him to "go sell some monitors"...seems to me the same could be said for you and Matrix...just sayin'

 

[Analog]

Agree to disagree maybe? I find both points of view useful. Luckily, I am in a position to try both rigs side by side to determine the right fit for my context. I am really hoping the CLR brings it home and I learn how to dial stuff in.

 

[Sixstring]

It's the same in EVERY SINGLE CLR related thread, the VAST MAJORITY as in >99% of people who have actually tried a CLR (key point !) absolutely loves them and wouldn't trade them for anything else.
This includes many professional users who have extensive experience with every type of rig construction out there, with playing any kind and size of venue out there, extensive experience with a ton of the traditional "golden standard" and vintage guitar and effects gear and experience from working in top tier recording studios, which should lend some weight to their opinion and endorsement.
We don't all have to love or choose the same gear, and some just like a regular guitar cab better, so personal taste and opinion is absolutely fine, but there are very, very, very few among those who have actually tried the CLRs that don't like them.

Generally in every CLR related thread one particular person will enter the thread exclusively to troll and bad mouth the CLR - which he only owned briefly and never got to work for him because of pilot error in the patch creation, not because of hardware insufficiency.
That whole thing is painstakingly documented in it's own thread.
The identity of that person is the easiest riddle in the world if you've followed more than one CLR related thread, and the person in question have crashed many CLR threads that others were enjoying and learning from, just so he could yet again follow his anti-CLR and anti-Atomic agenda - frankly, it got really old a long time ago, and I can for the life of me not understand that the moderators of this forum is shutting down good threads instead of reprimanding or suspending that forumite.

I am well aware of those threads that have gone south. I also understand LVC's post weighing in on the differences between a guitar cab and a monitor, they are different. Not siding with anyone here but LVC was specific that it didn't have anything to do with brand. I'm sure it can be said that there is a hidden agenda because of his discontent with FRFR in past postings but for me I'm looking at this thread and taking it at face value.

For the most part I believe that the FR users here will agree to disagree with LVC including my self that a good FR monitor will deliver good results. I have had a solid 6 years experience with the Axe and I know and can recognize the difference between the two, guitar cab and monitor briefly even running the two the same time at gigs. I don't need any convincing otherwise I know what works and how to work it which is why I sold my guitar amps and cabs.

 

[cobbler]

Dude who is talking about the CLR?

I am talking about monitors in general including the one that I own and gig with.


I do not care if you use Matrix, Atomic, or any other FRFR monitor solution they are monitors... period.


Telling someone on a forum that is looking for an in your face real tube amp/cab experience that he/she will get it with a monitor solution is plain false and misleading.

First off my name is not Dude. It's Craig or you can go by my avatar name of Cobbler.

And thank you for making my point even more obvious. This thread was created by the OP asking for Atomic CLR experience. You have chimed in on EVERY CLR thread and either slammed Atomic and their product or derailed the threads with your continued monitor vs. guitar cab diatribe. It's getting old an I am not the only one expressing this opinion.

And for the record, I am not using Matrix or Atomic at the moment. Comparing an in the room cab with a FRFR monitor is irrelevant. It's apples to oranges. Take your cab, put it in another room, mic it up and then compare. It's not rocket science. You know this.

My point was that you often derail EVERY CLR thread and I stand by my statement. I'll even take it a step further now since you have rubbed me the wrong way with your grade school Dude reference. It's also getting very old IMHO seeing your childish comments to any post Scott P makes. Everybody has their opinions and we all disagree with each other from time to time. However, it is very obvious you have some sort of history or grudge with Scott that compels you to reply with a snarky comment to the majority of his posts when he's trying to help others and even you at times.

To the OP, I am on the list for a couple of CLR's and might come up in this latest run. I plan to try them as all around speakers for use in my man cave not only as near fields (overkill indeed), guitar backline, but also as part of my surround sound system for my mini movie theatre. I will definitely be writing an honest review of how they perform. Good or bad.

 

[Analog]

And for the record, I am not using Matrix or Atomic at the moment. Comparing an in the room cab with a FRFR monitor is irrelevant. It's apples to oranges. Take your cab, put it in another room, mic it up and then compare. It's not rocket science. You know this..

Forgive my ignorance, but what about cab IR's that are said not to have mics "baked in"? I have read about some captures that were taken with .. "neutral" mics I think? Or the stock IR's with no mic component. Would that be a fair enough comparison when standing in front of both rigs?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Forgive my ignorance, but what about cab IR's that are said not to have mics "baked in"? I have read about some captures that were taken with .. "neutral" mics I think? Or the stock IR's with no mic component. Would that be a fair enough comparison when standing in front of both rigs?

The main and singular proponent of that is Jay Mitchell; he has claimed that for years, but has specialized expertise in that area beyond 99.9999^% of anyone else.

No, it's not a 'fair' (which is IMHO a misnomer) comparison because it is not comparing the same thing.

Axe-FX II - power amp - monitor = Guitar - effects/amp/cab/mic/preamp.
Axe-FX II - power amp - conventional cab = effects/amp/cab.

One is a complete system that stops after the mic pre (aka direct-to-FOH) and one is a complete system that stops after the speaker cab.

To compare the two you need to mic up and then output that signal to a FOH speaker.

Remember that everything coming out of the speaker cab has to fit into the diaphragm of whatever mic you are using to translate the speaker and the cab to FOH.

Disregarding the most obvious aspect; even a 'reference full range mic' is still translating a speaker through a relatively small diaphragm of a microphone either way. It is what it is. You can't make it anything different through magic or EQ tricks.

 

[LVC]

"Craig"

This is a thread that many folks posted and ask questions. I responded to a comment made by someone else in the thread. so a thread is not "all about the OP -- but also the folks that participate in it.

I posted nothing that could even be remotely interpreted as being negative toward any manufacturer of monitors in this thread. If anything you did and in effect derailed the thread.


Comparing a Powered Monitor to a real cab pushed by an amp on stage is not only completely irrelevant, but stupid ... that is exactly my point as well.

Why folks like Scott and others insist that a powered monitor (in this case the CLR) is going to give a user the same experience as powered amp/cab solution (even going as far as providing quotes :lol) is absurd and beyond me.

And you "Craig" should be calling him out (and others regardless of manufacturer ) on this and not me for pointing it out.

First off my name is not Dude. It's Craig or you can go by my avatar name of Cobbler.

And thank you for making my point even more obvious. This thread was created by the OP asking for Atomic CLR experience. You have chimed in on EVERY CLR thread and either slammed Atomic and their product or derailed the threads with your continued monitor vs. guitar cab diatribe. It's getting old an I am not the only one expressing this opinion.

And for the record, I am not using Matrix or Atomic at the moment. Comparing an in the room cab with a FRFR monitor is irrelevant. It's apples to oranges. Take your cab, put it in another room, mic it up and then compare. It's not rocket science. You know this.

My point was that you often derail EVERY CLR thread and I stand by my statement. I'll even take it a step further now since you have rubbed me the wrong way with your grade school Dude reference. It's also getting very old IMHO seeing your childish comments to any post Scott P makes. Everybody has their opinions and we all disagree with each other from time to time. However, it is very obvious you have some sort of history or grudge with Scott that compels you to reply with a snarky comment to the majority of his posts when he's trying to help others and even you at times.

To the OP, I am on the list for a couple of CLR's and might come up in this latest run. I plan to try them as all around speakers for use in my man cave not only as near fields (overkill indeed), guitar backline, but also as part of my surround sound system for my mini movie theatre. I will definitely be writing an honest review of how they perform. Good or bad.

 

[Scott Peterson]

"Craig"

This is a thread that many folks posted and ask questions. I responded to a comment made by someone else in the thread. so a thread is not "all about the OP -- but also the folks that participate in it.

Comparing the a Powered Monitor to a real cab pushed by an amp is completely irrelevant ... that is exactly my point as well.

Why folks like Scott and others insist that a powered monitor (in this case the CLR) is going to give a user the same experience as powered amp/cab solution (even going as far as providing quotes :lol) is absurd.

And you "Craig" should be calling him out (and others regardless of manufacturer ) on this and not me for pointing it out.


If I say someone making what I interpret as a misleading statements I will call them out on it.

Read any of my posts Laz. Either you have no reading comprehension or you have selective reading comprehension. My point has been/is/will be that they are NOT the same experience and unlike you, I go to great lengths to actually explain that in as plain terms as possible instead of needless antagonizing ad hominem attacks.

In fact read my unedited post just above your last one here. You can frame things any way you wish, but you cannot escape the fact that you cannot change the words I actually type, post and share if people take the time to read them. You are so busy sometimes trying to 'get me' that you don't stop to consider what you actually post. Hold yourself to the same standard you hold others to Laz. Try to at least. There's no reason for this continued badgering by you.