Atomic active CLR - Missing "body"

Kriig said:
I know you never bashed it. It would be interesting to see if things are in a good spot for you now.
Keep the reports coming. I'll be watching :D
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the Last time Jay came over and we did the whole W/D/W thing with the Seismic /Jsx/CLR all running together, it really made a light go off off in my head.
It sounded so good all mixed together that I 've decided to give this another go.
I'm hoping running 2 wedges together instead of one will do the trick for me.
 
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yek said:
FR has less directivity and punch than conventional speakers.
This is not solved by adding bass.
I'm not convinced that this is remedied merely by switching IRs either, unless you're going to mix special recipes.
EQ-ing helps (low mids). For example, try Tyler's mid boost trick. Or experiment with the Global EQ until you get that punch back.

Still, it won't be the same. But... You use a CLR as well as a guitar cab for the best of both worlds.
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^^^ This. yek beat me to it. :)

Stringtheorist, I don't know what your situation is, but I bet this would solve your problem more than changing IRs, bass boosting, etc.
 
Admin M@ said:
Did you say the CLR was on a pole?

Does anyone else think this could be related to the issue reported?
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I used one or two 2x12 cabs placed vertically, side by side, with Deeflex deflectors in front to push some of the sound up to my head. The CLR is mounted on a pole in FF mode.
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^^^ This. Comparing even a single 2x12 cabinet on the floor, coupling with the floor, sending low frequencies through its surroundings, to an elevated free-field position CLR, is not really a fair comparison. No chance this is going to feel the same, IMHO...sorry. If you can't add another speaker to the equation, placed on the floor in typical back line position, I'm afraid you may need to re-think your strategy in going with a single CLR to replace the 2x12 cabinet(s) you were previously using. Or, at least try it in the tilt (monitor wedge) position so you get some floor coupling effect, and see if that is any better.
 
Scott Peterson said:
Of course it is the key question and there are no assumptions necessary about any of it. If you don't feel inspired, then you need to change up your gear. Nothing is 'popping up' at all, it's never been any different and it never ill. There is no "FRFR fit in the mix sound" as a general rule though, that's a mistaken way of interpreting it. I've heard great sounds, I heard crappy sounds. Too many guys will spend months chasing the right speakers in different cabs for their amp, spending thousands of dollars; but get pissed that they need to spend a few hours understanding and working with IR's and might have to spend a few bucks on IR's to get the right tones. There is no one sound. Using your conventional cab on stage and sending a direct signal to FOH is fine; but you need to account for stage bleed into the mic's. An easy workaround when doing it that way is to run side stage as a sidewash.
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Sorry, I don't comprehend this.

I suggested real amp/cab as an alternative to be "inspired".
Threads are popping up with people having trouble with FRFR.
FRFR fit in the mix sound is...er... pretty close since the Axe is simulating a miced cab... mistaken way of interpreting it? Not sure if this is bait or something else.
OP is talking about stage bleed... except the type that the band wants to hear.
Bleed into the mics is certainly a concern but if it's on a pole, it's likely bleeding everything, not just the typical low to mid.
At this point, if a working solution can't be had with the built in IR's, something's terribly wrong.

So first things first, try on the floor. Not good? A/B the rig with the real thing and get as close as possible. Still not good? Consider a real cab.
 
I find the stock cabs are fine personally, people are always quick to say go get armandhammer this and that. There are tons of amps and speakers to choose from. Use your ears as you scroll through, use what sounds good not what it says. The names can be a good starting point, but if a 1x12 sounds better to you than the 4x12 use it.

I ran direct at 3 different gigs recently, and recorded my guitar out front and all 3 nights it sounded different due to the room, and the guy mixing. I was running in ears so I was fine. Again, IMHO, YMMV.
 
im pretty sure everyone that uses and loves the ownhammer ir's is always quick to point out that the stock ir's are great as well (myself included).

tbh, i've yet to find a 4x12 ir i like as much as the stock tv mix. it's all about taste and what works for the individual....but the ownhammers are great, especially the 1x12's...game changers, for ME.
 
grape said:
Sorry, I don't comprehend this.

I suggested real amp/cab as an alternative to be "inspired".
Threads are popping up with people having trouble with FRFR.
FRFR fit in the mix sound is...er... pretty close since the Axe is simulating a miced cab... mistaken way of interpreting it? Not sure if this is bait or something else.
OP is talking about stage bleed... except the type that the band wants to hear.
Bleed into the mics is certainly a concern but if it's on a pole, it's likely bleeding everything, not just the typical low to mid.
At this point, if a working solution can't be had with the built in IR's, something's terribly wrong.

So first things first, try on the floor. Not good? A/B the rig with the real thing and get as close as possible. Still not good? Consider a real cab.
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Not that excerpt you took out of context, but your post and what I am saying is 100% in agreement. There's no attitude here at all, just discussion. It's not always a battle. My point was to not lose sight of how important the IR's are to working direct-to-FOH.
 
Scott Peterson said:
Ask yourself this - when's the last time you heard a band playing where the instruments were carrying the room from the stage from their personal cabs and thought, holy crap - that band sounded great! The playing might have knocked you out, the performance might have knocked you out, the guitarists' raw tone might have knocked you out, but I bet your wife/girlfriend/buddy that does not play guitar looked at you and said; "...are you kidding? I could not hear the vocals at all." If it did, move 10 feet either way left or right of the stage. .
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completely false premise.

As an example most bands in NYC/NJ do not go through FOH. They do not even know what FOH is :lol

They just set up their gear and go. And you know what ... a lot of them (at least the bands I follow) sound great including mine.

Not every one plays to several hundred or thousands of people when they gig.

A lot of us play small venues (pubs/restaurants/clubs) that when the club manager walks over and tells you to turn it down it is not because the instruments are too loud .. but because the vocals are too loud. If folks sitting having a cocktail can't have a conversation at a reasonable volume -- you are playing too loud.

So what you are saying might be true for larger clubs and venues but not for the types of venues most gigging musicians play in every weekend of the year (at least in NYC and NJ).
 
I gotta agree with Scott, That's allways been my experience ! I can only remember one time A long time ago , hearing a band and thinking ,man I want that tone, It was A Les Paul through the first Mesa boogie Mark I I'd ever heard! ,but , The guitar was way too loud compared to the rest of the band ,The volume had a huge part to play, In other words the mix was horrible! As a guitar player I liked it then, but as a listener it wasn't good at all !! By the way I bought a Mesa boogie Mk I after that and never came close to achieving that tone unless it was loud!!! Extremely frustrating!! That's when I started my search for a low volume alternative!!!
 
LVC said:
completely false premise.

As an example most bands in NYC/NJ do not go through FOH. They do not even know what FOH is :lol

They just set up their gear and go. And you know what ... a lot of them (at least the bands I follow) sound great including mine.

Not every one plays to several hundred or thousands of people when they gig.

A lot of us play small venues (pubs/restaurants/clubs) that when the club manager walks over and tells you to turn it down it is not because the instruments are too loud .. but because the vocals are too loud. If folks sitting having a cocktail can't have a conversation at a reasonable volume -- you are playing too loud.

So what you are saying might be true for larger clubs and venues but not for the types of venues most gigging musicians play in every weekend of the year (at least in NYC and NJ).
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Same here when I was playing clubs up in N. Cal. Not one guitar player I heard in all those years had his amp miced & most of those bands (including mine) sounded great! Vocals & horns went through the P.A. Everything else was live off the stage.
 
Admin M@ said:
Did you say the CLR was on a pole?

Does anyone else think this could be related to the issue reported?
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jimfist said:
^^^ This. Comparing even a single 2x12 cabinet on the floor, coupling with the floor, sending low frequencies through its surroundings, to an elevated free-field position CLR, is not really a fair comparison. No chance this is going to feel the same, IMHO...sorry. If you can't add another speaker to the equation, placed on the floor in typical back line position, I'm afraid you may need to re-think your strategy in going with a single CLR to replace the 2x12 cabinet(s) you were previously using. Or, at least try it in the tilt (monitor wedge) position so you get some floor coupling effect, and see if that is any better.
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Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
i said that like, so long ago guys. :p
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This very will might be the answer to a big part of the equation for the OP for sure.
 
Lmao. To most people in the audience, a guitar sound coming out of a guitar cab and a guitar sound coming out of an FRFR cab will sound the same. Both have an opportunity to sound bad or good.

I definitely play in situations where only the vocals are in the PA. My single RCF, or my dual k10 or single EON 15 rigs definitely sound full, good and loud to fill the room with no PA involved.

the point of this thread thus far is that someone used to use 4 speakers coupled to the floor. Now he uses 1 speaker sitting on a pole. He observes and wonders why there is less bass and "fullness" and the differences I just pointed out are the main causes. It doesn't matter what brand, what IR, what processor, even what instrument. 1 speaker will never sound like 4 (or even 2).
 
This raises the question, how effective is the DSP on the Atomic CLR?

At home, I plan to use the wedges on the floor. At gigs, that may vary.

One reason why I wanted to try the CLRs, is to use them as a PA system, mainly just for student recitals and small gigs. (And yes, I'm aware that if I want low bass, I will need a subwoofer. But there are lots of good options.)

I will also use them for studio monitors (with the same understanding as above).

Maybe another way to rephrase my initial question is, "Does using them on the floor add bass?" Or, "Do we just feel the bass frequencies more that way?"

How full sounding are they with recorded music when standing on poles? Or, even just with a bass guitar? Anyone test them in this manner?
 
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