Are you using IRs + atomic reactor or real cab for live setups and bad practice?

W

webstersp

Inspired
Before I order everything i need for a new Axe FX ultra setup (want to order everything at once :p)
I would like to know from people who tried both wich did you prefer?


1) Tube power amp + guitar cab? (2x12 v30 cab)

or

2) Something like the Art SlA2 power amp and a passive atomic reactor cab.


The sound of my band is pretty heavy power chords and palm muting (similar to Story of the Tear, The Used etc)
But I also play in a cover band where we play 80's hard rock (Def Leppard, Van Halen, White lion etc) using delays, stereo chorus etc.
 
I can swear by 2xverve 12ma if you want solid high volume FRFR. Some people have complained the Atomics fart out at high volume/heavy sounds.

I also have a power amp and a Marshall 1960A cab.

Both are different in reality and both sound great. If you are not used to a di sound, you may prefer the power amp/cab route. FRFR is worth the extra learning curve for its versatility in cabs and hifi FX, but listening to and dialing in what is effectively a MIC'd up sound is a journey. IMHO.

I think if you go one way, you may land up trying the other at somepoint...both are great...
 
Griffin said:
Some people have complained the Atomics fart out at high volume/heavy sounds.
Click to expand...

I was looking at the atomic passive cab because i really liked the fact that it was a great portable kit!
I use to have a mesa 20/20 with a Sans amp psa 1, but since there is a power amp section in the axe fx using a
Art Sla2 would give me more versatility right?

Pros and cons

Tube power amp + 2x12 v30 guitar cab

Easier setup to dial, better at high volume, less versatility: the power amp section and Irs cab not used. Heavy and cost more $$$

Art SLA2 + Atomic Passive Cab

Harder to dial the sounds I want, Not great at high volume, Lot of versatility (power section and IRS cab) , very portable cost less money and i could add
a second atomic passive cab and use 2 different setup/amps at the same time.


Anything missing?
 
From what I've read around here, the "not great at high volume" problem can be solved with the right FRFR amp/cab combination. It seems a lot of folks are having good success with FBT Verve 12ma active wedges, for instance. Maybe get a pair of those?

I'm in the same boat myself. I just ordered an Ultra and am trying to decide what the smallest, most portable FRFR rig would be to cover the most scenarios that I am likely to be involved in. My current thinking is that the Ultra in a 4-space rack case (room for a power conditioner and wireless receiver someday) hooked up to a single Verve 12ma (to start with) is the way to go. I can always get a second Verve if necessary, but that isn't likely any time soon.
 
Yeah i also want a portable setup and the atomic passive cab only weight 34 lbs.
An orange 2x12 cab is 28kg (62lbs) (I use to ahve a mesa 4x12 and an orange 4x12, orange cabs are just great!)
The active atomic cab is 45lbs, not bad but I don't really like having tubes in the cab.
With all the shaking in there i don't want any trouble, anyway an Art SLA2 is 299$ brand new, you can add
2 atomic passive cabs and have 2 complete different setup for not much more than an active atomic!

Any others have that "not great at high volume'' ?
 
I just got the Ultra and an active atomic cab. Before the atomic cab I was using a Gigrac powered mixer and a couple of Yamaha BR12 speakers I had. I was not happy with the sound especially the lows. When I hooked the atomic cab my first impression was "it is not that loud"...well until I bumped the output level on the Ultra. I have to say it is LOUD and sounds wonderful. I am planning on either getting another active cab or SLA2 + 2 wedge atomic cabs. My wife thinks it is too loud for playing at home but I respectfully disagree :D
 
At this stage still using a stereo power amp and a couple of cabs.
Likely to get a couple of Full Range cabs at some stage once we power amp dilemma is resolved.
 
I always use a cab but go direct to the board. I go thru andFXL block to output 2 which goes to my amp/cab, then after that is a cab sim at the end of my patch chain so my direct feed to the board has cab emulation. The tricky part if you do that is using a cab sim for all your patches that sounds close to what's coming out of your stage rig, but it really hasn't been a headache for me. I also mic sometimes on bigger stages and that's fine too. I love the feel of a real cab. FRFR is great for lower volume gigs and for high-fi type sounds, but if you are a rocker and you want to feel the air move when you play, I think you'd like amp/cab better.

To my ear my tone was most convincing with a tube power amp (Mesa 50/50) but I don't want to carry one around in my rack anymore. You can get very very close with SS as long as you don't skimp on power.

Lately I use the new rocktron velocity 300. Pros for that amp are: single rack space, plenty of power, and it has reactance and definition controls that let you add a lot of big lushness to the sound (and plenty of thumpa thumpa) but also will let you add some definition to the high mids if you're not cutting thru. On the down side, it's a heavy little buggar for one space (18 lbs) and also I would never use if for an FRFR rig since the reactance and defninition controls color your sound. If you think you might end up FRFR you might want to go with a cleaner high-power solution. But if you go with a guitar cab, this one gets high marks, especially if you want to hold down the size of your rack (it's one space, and similar depth to the axe fx).

DO NOT SKIMP ON WATTS. Solid state power amps don't have the headroom or transient response of tube amps, so you need 4-5x the power to get the same apparent girth of tone. If you don't mind two rack spaces, there are tons of options, to include some of the newer lightweight digital amps that don't have transformers. (Carvin and more recently Peavy have very modestly priced versions and a 1000 watt power amp, despite sounding insane, is actually OK).
 
jojo said:
...if you are a rocker and you want to feel the air move when you play, I think you'd like amp/cab better.
Click to expand...

Feeling the air move goes hand in hand with cranked amp volume, doesn't it?

Back when the only way to get "rock distortion" out of an amp was to crank its 100 watts to maximum, "feeling the air move" was perhaps a necessary evil. But how it ever became a preference over, oh I dunno, hearing good quality sound at volumes that don't imperil one's hearing, is beyond me. We live in an age now where we can have any kind of sound (including satisfying power stage distortion) at any volume level, including "reasonable", so why volunteer for hearing loss? This goes for everyone else on stage too (I'm looking at all you drummers).

Ginger Baker could barely play drums with the volume levels he had to endure sitting between Jack and Eric and their monstrous amplifier rigs. He is virtually deaf from "second hand volume", and this is the sort of stage environment we are still advocating? FRFR strikes me as a godsend for musicians who want to sound good at reasonable stage volumes, and yet I keep reading about how FRFR's inability to capture the Shock and Awe of 100 watt tube amps dimed to "blow air up your arse" is a nagging deficiency.

There are just some things about my generation (or is it "rockers" in general?) I'll never understand...
 
zslane said:
Feeling the air move goes hand in hand with cranked amp volume, doesn't it?

Back when the only way to get "rock distortion" out of an amp was to crank its 100 watts to maximum, "feeling the air move" was perhaps a necessary evil. But how it ever became a preference over, oh I dunno, hearing good quality sound at volumes that don't imperil one's hearing, is beyond me. We live in an age now where we can have any kind of sound (including satisfying power stage distortion) at any volume level, including "reasonable", so why volunteer for hearing loss? This goes for everyone else on stage too (I'm looking at all you drummers).

Ginger Baker could barely play drums with the volume levels he had to endure sitting between Jack and Eric and their monstrous amplifier rigs. He is virtually deaf from "second hand volume", and this is the sort of stage environment we are still advocating? FRFR strikes me as a godsend for musicians who want to sound good at reasonable stage volumes, and yet I keep reading about how FRFR's inability to capture the Shock and Awe of 100 watt tube amps dimed to "blow air up your arse" is a nagging deficiency.

There are just some things about my generation (or is it "rockers" in general?) I'll never understand...
Click to expand...
+1000 !!
When I'm not playing I run sound and rent my PA out to local bands. I also run sound for some local bands using their PA gear. I ran sound for years before I ever picked up a guitar. Yes, I have been to the dark side.

Over those years I've had countless "discussions" with guitar players who stepped straight out of Spinal Tap. "See.. this one goes to 11!". As stated above.. there is no need to have to "feel the air move" in today's world. IEM's are very common... so you don't really need amps 1/2 the time (or more). Even if you do have an amp.. get a 20w amp and put a mic on it, or better still use the direct out to go straight to FOH. If you have that little amp.. face it across the stage and point it up at you. You may be surprised how WELL you can hear yourself and how much IRREVERSIBLE damage to your hearing you will NOT cause - when that sound is hitting your ears and not your knees!!

And this is the other BIG thing.. FOH now has control of your band sound. Despite what you may see/hear/believe most FOH guys (at least those I know) are not retards strung out on whatever cocktail the bar serves up (yes they DO exist) but folks who love to make a band sound great, and WANT to do their best to make you sound as good as you want to play!! This is [often] a challenge when you keep asking for more "me" in the monitor. You can't hear your vocals 'cus your 2000w stereo-split both sides of the stage Marshall stack is drowning out the drums and bass and is rattling the roof! I jest not...!! been there. The ONLY solution is to have YOU turn down. But you don't GET that because you don't view it as a viable choice.

You can't turn down 'cus drummer is too loud you say? Really? No such thing.. You might be surprised at how quietly that "LOUD rock" drummer can play if he CAN'T HEAR YOU and you WON'T TURN UP !@! Try it... or find another drummer.
Screamo-death-metal-post-seattle-grunge-alternative-rock is supposed to be played loud ?? OK.. So use a BIG PA... SAVE YOUR HEARING and keep stage volumes to a minimum. Let the PA do the job it is supposed to. Try it for a while.. you might actually get used to it and like it.
Better still... get IEM's.. problem solved! All the moving air is right in your ears!
<end rant>
 
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s0c9 said:
+1000 !!
When I'm not playing I run sound and rent my PA out to local bands. I also run sound for some local bands using their PA gear. I ran sound for years before I ever picked up a guitar. Yes, I have been to the dark side.

Over those years I've had countless "discussions" with guitar players who stepped straight out of Spinal Tap. "See.. this one goes to 11!". As stated above.. there is no need to have to "feel the air move" in today's world. IEM's are very common... so you don't really need amps 1/2 the time (or more). Even if you do have an amp.. get a 20w amp and put a mic on it, or better still use the direct out to go straight to FOH. If you have that little amp.. face it across the stage and point it up at you. You may be surprised how WELL you can hear yourself and how much IRREVERSIBLE damage to your hearing you will NOT cause - when that sound is hitting your ears and not your knees!!

And this is the other BIG thing.. FOH now has control of your band sound. Despite what you may see/hear/believe most FOH guys (at least those I know) are not retards strung out on whatever cocktail the bar serves up (yes they DO exist) but folks who love to make a band sound great, and WANT to do their best to make you sound as good as you want to play!! This is [often] a challenge when you keep asking for more "me" in the monitor. You can't hear your vocals 'cus your 2000w stereo-split both sides of the stage Marshall stack is drowning out the drums and bass and is rattling the roof! I jest not...!! been there. The ONLY solution is to have YOU turn down. But you don't GET that because you don't view it as a viable choice.

You can't turn down 'cus drummer is too loud you say? Really? No such thing.. You might be surprised at how quietly that "LOUD rock" drummer can play if he CAN'T HEAR YOU and you WON'T TURN UP !@! Try it... or find another drummer.
Screamo-death-metal-post-seattle-grunge-alternative-rock is supposed to be played loud ?? OK.. So use a BIG PA... SAVE YOUR HEARING and keep stage volumes to a minimum. Let the PA do the job it is supposed to. Try it for a while.. you might actually get used to it and like it.
Better still... get IEM's.. problem solved! All the moving air is right in your ears!
<end rant>
Click to expand...

Well put, and extremely accurate.

In my band, both us guitar players use the Axes into our Verve 12ma's.
We also have JBL monitors in front of us, and bleed in just a tiny bit of the Axe...what a full rich sound!
We keep our stage volume very moderate, and let the PA pound away.
Nobody goes deaf on stage, and it sounds better than ever.
 
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