Are power conditioners snake oil?

i created a thread just now without looking at this one. so im going to ask the same question here again. what are your opinions on the pb 10 pro? as i just saw one at a local music shop, I don't know much about power conditioners or rack units for that matter so let me know what you guys think of this unit to protect the axe

It looks (I took a very quick look) like a fancy power strip with a light. This is the stuff that westom is talking about. If you simply want a rack mount power strip with a light on it, go for it. If you want something that will remove noise and condition the ac continue to look.
 
I simply mean to point out that a blanket statement of power conditioners being taboo is just inaccurate.
Nobody said that. I don't know why anyone would assume that conclusion.

But plenty of snake oil exists because no line conditioner addresses all or even most anomalies. State which anomaly is to be solved with numbers. Otherwise the only useful conclusion is "probably snake oil". So many recommend products only because it costs more money or looks expensive (ie a front panel volt meter).

Virtually everything from Monster and the products that Monster has duplicated are snake oil. Their game is quite profitable due to subjective reasoning.
 
+1 Luke. And the foremost thing that power-conditioners do is to filter any DC out from the A/C. Apart from being a stable and convenient strip that makes the A/C routing neat and sturdy inside the rack.



There shouldn't be much dc in mains anyway. Again it comes down to the supply. I can only talk about UK, but its good, stable power, si conditioners, even top end ones arnt needed. If you power DRM generators its a different matter, and if the country you ate in has poor mains, again its a different matter.
 
Westom -

Thanks for the clarification on the Axe's PS - very comforting to know. The rest of the rack may not have been designed by equivalently meticulous engineers though...
 
There shouldn't be much dc in mains anyway. Again it comes down to the supply. I can only talk about UK, but its good, stable power, si conditioners, even top end ones arnt needed. If you power DRM generators its a different matter, and if the country you ate in has poor mains, again its a different matter.

If you live or gig near a step-down trafo-station that's also feed a factory with old equipment You would be amazed by how much overlaid DC, high values of harmonic noice you can measure op top of the "clean" A/C voltage. Two opposite diodes first-in kill's the D/C but the harmonics reaching uncomfortably high up over 50 Hz. are of worse concern. I can only talk about Denmark, but this is a serious matter in a lot of places.
 
For me its more of a convenience thing. I like having something in my rack case that I can just leave everything plugged into and have a master power switch.

That said, if I knew for certain that lightning would strike my house at a certain time, would I leave everything powered on and plugged in and trust my little $200 Furman PL8 to protect it? No, I would not. Still, it's there and it's something.
 
If you live or gig near a step-down trafo-station that's also feed a factory with old equipment You would be amazed by how much overlaid DC, high values of harmonic noice you can measure op top of the "clean" A/C voltage.
DC voltages between what and what? Voltages must always exist between two points. DC voltages, as described, are not problematic for electronics. But can be a serious human safety issue. A threat that would not exist if the utility and a building's electrical system is properly earthed. Not just any ground. A unique ground defined by earthing electrodes.

DC voltages cannot pass through utility transformers.

Harmonics also are made irrelevant by circuits (as another described) that make DC voltages irrelevant. Harmonics can be a greater threat to motorized appliances.

Meanwhile, harmonics and many other anomalies are made irrelevant by how electronics get and regulate power. No matter how 'clean' or 'dirty', a power supply converts that into a much higher voltage (exceeding 300 volts). Then converts that into radio frequency spikes (spikes are rich in harmonics), If harmonics are a problem, then the worst harmonics are created by each electronics' power supply.

Since best filtering is already inside every supply, then high voltage radio wave spikes are converted to rock solid and stable, low voltage DC. For many anomalies, it does not matter how clean power is. Since most electronics convert 'clean' or 'dirty' power into some of the 'dirtiest' in a building. Then superior filters inside each supply 'clean' that 'dirtiest' electricity into 'cleanest' DC voltages.

Some anomalies can corrupt that superior filtering. A most common path is one that bypasses superior supply filtering.

To say more requires discussing each anomaly uniquely. IOW no standard defines line conditioners. The term is quite subjective - which advertisers love because myths are then easily generated. Solutions do target unique anomalies. One useful solution might address noise. But to be sufficiently sized, these series mode filters would be tens of kilograms. Many (ie Furman) claim to eliminate noise. But when we read its numbers, that subjective 'cleaning' is near zero. Just large enough to claim total filtering - subjectively.

Important for each anomaly are specification numbers. For example, all electronics do superior line voltage regulation. Axe-FX spec numbers say it is even better.

Will a $200 Furman protect from lightning? It does not even claim to. But superior solutions for $50 or $80 do protect from lightning. Protects everything including the Furman. And remains functional after each strike. An example of an effective solution unique to one anomaly that also costs less money. With manufacturer spec numbers that say how effective it can be.
 
Last edited:
Here are the facts, agree, or not.

A good quality power conditioner is designed with internal filter banks to isolate the individual power outlets or receptacles on the power conditioner. This eliminates interference or "cross-talk" between components. The power conditioner will also have a "joule" rating. A joule is a measurement of energy or heat required to sustain one watt for one second, known as a watt second. Since electrical surges are momentary spikes, the joule rating indicates how much electrical energy the suppressor can absorb at once before becoming damaged itself. The higher the joule rating, the greater the protection.

While many will crusade that power conditioners are snake oil, the truth is, they provide an added layer of protection and do eliminate interference just as they claim. ANYONE SAYING THIS IS NOT TRUE is just talking out of their ass.
 
My experience in the UK is that no electrical equipment has failed or suffered impaired performance through issues related to the mains supply. I'm not challenging what a power conditioner can or can't do, my experience is that they are not needed.
 
Anybody knows if its possible to get a surge protector that works without ground wire?
It seems like all of them need that third leg :/
 
Regarding noise and "dirty power" — most guitar noise problems are caused by interference radiating through the air, not by noise on the power line. No amount of power conditioning or filtering will help with radiated interference.

Regarding lightning strikes: — if there's a direct lightning strike at or near your equipment, all bets are off. Nothing can guarantee protection from that. A nearby strike can directly induce current in your gear, even if it's not plugged in at all.
 
Not to interject more controversy, but I just "fixed" an annoying ticking noise on my Mark IV by inserting my Monster Power Conditioner (the "Monster Power PRO 1000", one of the more expensive "snake oil" ones) between the amp and wall plug. Annoyingly this was *after* I bought a full set of preamp and power tubes. I've mainly used the unit to avoid 60-cycle hum and power spikes at live gigs in the past, but it certainly seems to have filtered out this particular ticking noise (which I'd not heard before, likely because this was the first time I'd plugged my amp directly into the wall outlet without my entire rig).

I guess my take-away is that while they're no panacea of power (and most certainly overpriced), the units *do* help in some situations.
 
Anybody knows if its possible to get a surge protector that works without ground wire?
It seems like all of them need that third leg :/
That third prong is required for human safety. The device cannot be listed without that essential safety feature.

A conditioner must be defined quantitatively. Numbers for its joules and filter often define it as near zero. Many know it is an added layer of protection because advertising or hearsay said so. They are using subjective reasoning. If that layer of protection existed, then numbers were also included. Near zero joules are hundreds or a thousand. A filter that 'adds' significant filtering must contain components to weigh tens of kilograms. Filters inside many line conditioners are equivalent to a wire with knots on it. Subjective and snake oil claims are similar.
 
sorry to add another things to this also,

my home supply is really noisy, like really noisy. i cant record a simple DI without having a really high noise floor, making the DI useless.
i have a macbook, monitors and my axe fx 2 running through an Mbox interface. i get a lot of buzz through my monitors all the time. better when the mac isnt charging, but still.

so, if i get a Power conditioner for my rack, can i/should i find a way to run my laptop and stuff from it too to help?
im new to all of this.
 
my home supply is really noisy, like really noisy. i cant record a simple DI without having a really high noise floor, making the DI useless.
Based upon this preliminary information, you may need a series mode filter. These (heavy) filters are sold by Surgex, Brickwall, and others. That would be for noise on hot or neutral wires. If the noise current is via a safety ground, well, that must be solved elsewhere.

This is exactly how electrical anomalies are solved. Defined a specific anomaly. Then a particular line conditioner that targets that anomaly is recommended.

No line conditioner solves all anomalies - as some advertising claims.
 
That third prong is required for human safety. The device cannot be listed without that essential safety feature.

A conditioner must be defined quantitatively. Numbers for its joules and filter often define it as near zero. Many know it is an added layer of protection because advertising or hearsay said so. They are using subjective reasoning. If that layer of protection existed, then numbers were also included. Near zero joules are hundreds or a thousand. A filter that 'adds' significant filtering must contain components to weigh tens of kilograms. Filters inside many line conditioners are equivalent to a wire with knots on it. Subjective and snake oil claims are similar.

Thanks for clarification :)
 
Back
Top Bottom