Anyone willing to help a delay idiot....

The_Kid

The_Kid

Experienced
Maybe I'll learn something out of this......

Ok, so I'm passable at setting delays for leads just to add the ambient type echo to fill space.....what I really suck at is dialing in a delay specific to help a song. Such as Everything by Buckcherry. The beginning part with the clean delays are kicking my ass.....either I'm not playing/picking the parts right, or my delays are not set right....so I thought I'd start with the easier of the two to fix...the delays.

Does anyone have any settings that emulate this...I'm having a hard time getting the right type of delay repeats...and also the volume of the repeats and well....i guess everything. I've tried series parallel to help with the mix of dry/wet sound... played with ducking parm's....still not getting it right...

any help?
 
ok, first thing you gotta do is tap along with the tempo (use quarter notes) on the tap tempo button on the front of the axe. i get about 129bpm. then set "tempo to use" to "preset", so the tempo gets saved with the patch

then i used the tape delay and raised the locut freq up to about 200hz and the hicut to 20k
i then turned up diffusion to 30%
i set the tempo of the delays to 1/8 dot
feedback to 60%

i've got the delay in parallel with mix at 100% and level about -3db
 
I do use Tap Tempo, and Had it set to 1/8 (more questions on that later, if your willing to help), the delay time that was being used was around 475ms if I recall correct, but my bpm was around the bpm you suggested.

Those settings dont seem far off from where I was setting it. I'll check my settings tonight and compare for sure, but...they dont seem far off....THanks for the initial input...
 
ok, maybe the easier to fix issue for me (settings aside) is how I tap the tempo. Typically I tap on the 2 & 4. We play all standard type rock stuff, so very few complex timings to work out...like I said only really use it for ambiance during solos. But, if I'm tapping on the kick/snare/kick/snare pattern.....I usually then have the delay set to whatever pattern gets me the 450-550ms range as thats what sounds best to me and then with the tapped tempo stays relatively in beat with the song... am I wrong on this approach?
 
yes. you have to tap the tempo button on the 1,2,3 and 4 (kick and snare) to get the actual tempo of the song
 
I'm not sure why you are using tap tempo to get a specific millisecond value.

The reason for using tap tempo is to adjust the speed of the delay to the song as it's happening. If playing without a click or metronome, there will be variances in the speed/tempo even if it's close. So tapping the tempo assures it lines up with what's going on at that moment.

The particular song you mention is set to 1/4 note triplets - which isn't typical. But then you have to tap on the quarter note of the song "1 2 3 4" not just 2 and 4.

Honestly, tapping on the quarter notes is the more typical way to use, not 2 and 4 only. But if you want to do 2 and 4, you can - you just have to be consistent.

The 2 common settings for tempo are Quarter note and Dotted 8th - which means you should always tap to the quarter note. If you would rather tap 2 and 4, double those values since you are tapping 1/2 less - 8th note and Dotted 16th.

I think you are getting confused with having the different note values set, but then tapping "the same way" for each setting.

If you want to physically tap exactly how you want the delays to sound - so for the Buck Cherry song you would tap your foot exactly like the delay would be heard on the triplet feel - keep it set to Quarter note.

If you want to always tap the beat of the song "1 2 3 4" then you'll have to change the Tempo setting per song or have different presets/XY - one for Quarter, another for Dotted 8th. Or double those values like I said above for "2" and "4."

But again, the buck cherry song is a 1/4 note triplet delay - subtle difference vs Dotted 8th, but that's what it is.
 
Thank you Chris. I understand what your saying regarding the 'getting a specific ms value'. Its not so much that I do it to get a specific value, its just that the 450-550 range seems to sound best as a general delay time. So when I was tapping (admittedly incorrectly), and then trying to set the 1, 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8th setting so that I could tap the song at the tempo we play it at it was difficult for me to just choose one of those options...so I've had some at 1/4 and some at 1/8 or 1/2, pending the song and how I tap it.

Again, the issue is me and inconsistent tapping....so I just need to be more consistent. Part of my issue as well I think is that I do not have specific presets for 'songs', rather I have amp presets that may be used across multiple songs. So choosing 1/4, 1/8 etc, may not always be the consistent response I want....

But I defer back to the original problem...it sounds like you guys have given me the proper information for the sounds I was looking for.


Bonus content for those interested in exploring my issues further:

Lately I've noted the bpms that I tapped out, using my above mentioned 1, 2(tapped), 3, 4(tapped) method. So I can maybe 'train' myself to tap 'appropriately' (as lame as this sounds).....could someone give me their tap tempo's for these songs so I can train myself to do it correctly. In these cases then I would be setting the delay time to 1/4, if I'm tapping the 1/2/3/4's?

Born to Be Wild - Steppenwolf
Enter Sandman - Metallica
Who Says You Can't Go Home - Bon Jovi
Every Rose has its thorn - Poison

That should give me a range of songs to get accustomed to. I as always appreciate any and all help....i've learned on the go...and I learn better by teaching/example...so I thank you!!
 
If you set a 1/4 tempo, then tap on 1 2 3 4, the delay will repeat on 1 2 3 4, which are 1/4 notes.

Just tap to the beat. We can't teach you how to count the beat. Honestly, it'd be easier to help you if you video yourself tapping to the beat of those songs - just tapping with your finger on a table would even be sufficient. If the problem is you recognizing beats, we need to start there.
 
ok, so finally sitting down with the song after all this great input and knowledge. Someone mentioned the bpm was 129, when tapping 'as I normally do', I'm right there with the bpm. So I set the levels as mentioned above.....and it sounds better than what I had. So I'm somewhat relieved that my explanation of my tapping is what was wrong, and not my actual tapping...Sorry for the confusion Chris....you can only help when you know the problem..and its more my understanding of delays than my tapping....

So on that note...I played with the diffusion as it was mentioned to have it 30%....to me it kind of adds a 'reverb' type effect to the delays....I didnt care for it at 30% but lowered by half and have it at around 12%. There was something in the higher frequency type range that wasnt jiving in my ears and annoyed me....maybe that gets lost in the overall mix...but I didnt like it. What exactly is diffusion doing?



Sorry for the questions you guys are a great help, I read manuals and the wiki....and sometimes things click when I hear them put another way...
 
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