Anyone want to talk about Elon Musk trying to buy Twitter

[ElectricPhase]

So free speech full of hatred and trying to incite violence is OK? Jeeezzz!

When you prohibit any kind of speech, the designated gatekeepers will rapidly head down a very slippery slope. All kinds of innocuous speech will be curtailed.

This is no ivory tower argument. Look around. This is the world we are currently living in.

 

[levipeto]

 

[Holbert71]

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Also the same ones that bought Neil Young's music catalog

 

[steadystate]

So free speech full of hatred and trying to incite violence is OK?

Yes. It's up to each listener to recognize it for what it is. Additionally, all one has to do is label what one disagrees with as hate speech to justify silencing those with opposing opinions.

 

[skolacki]

My wife’s out of town and I played a lot today. I got me a buzz going and I have a really good toy to play with. And it is sounding very good. My biggest fans are right here (my dogs). Apparently they like bluesy VC dropped grooves. Fuck this thread it went south and I’m sorry I opened my mouth. Politics is like religion no one’s going to change anybody's mind.

Peace to all you guys.

 

[Ron_R]

Gates is no angel, but he's actually done a lot of good.

Bill Gates is the ultimate James Bond villain. Think about it.

 

[Ron_R]

The machinations of the rich and elite are irrelevant to me.

 

[deathbyguitar]

So free speech full of hatred and trying to incite violence is OK? Jeeezzz!

I despise hate speech but it's protected by the U.S constitution. Incitement of violence is not. Since morality is extremely subjective and varies widely between all of us, I think it's best to focus on legality

 

[RDeraz]

The problem is too many people are equating Twitter to a free speech platform. It is not, and never has been. They are a corporation with shareholders and a terms of service agreement. (Whether you read it or not). They are not a public utility. Your free speech rights end at their ToSA if you use their platform.

 

[fcs101]

Since morality is extremely subjective and varies widely between all of us...

Morality is not extremely subjective. It is true that individuals find ways to justify their own desires/behavior and there is a spectrum of acceptable behavior, but there is a baseline of morality upon which a nation's laws are built. Without that there would be chaos.

 

[ElectricPhase]

The problem is too many people are equating Twitter to a free speech platform. It is not, and never has been. They are a corporation with shareholders and a terms of service agreement. (Whether you read it or not). They are not a public utility. Your free speech rights end at their ToSA if you use their platform.

Certain tech giants successfully lobbied for legal immunity from laws that control other large megaphone media. There is a tendency to view them like the phone companies because that's what we want them to be. It's no longer what they are. The basis for those carve outs is no longer valid. As soon as they began to control the flow of information rather than merely facilitating it, they become publishers and should be treated as such.

 

[NeoSound]

“No experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, and which we trust will end in establishing the fact, that man may be governed by reason and truth. Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all the avenues to truth. The most effectual hitherto found, is the freedom of the press.” — Thomas Jefferson

When once trusted news sources started pushing their own bias, misinformation and opinions as fact, it is no longer freedom of the press, but manipulation and propaganda. A position of influence over people and money has always brought outside influencers seeking profit and control (some are just vindictive because of past experience) at the expense of truth. It's now allowed to go on and openly accepted with almost no consequences, at least for certain groups of people. Very unlike the days of Thomas Jefferson. The press was the main source (sometimes only) of new information in his day. Now there are many sources with just a few controlling it. Things are no longer an experiment but science and some know how to push your buttons for their desired result. - Donnie

 

[RDeraz]

Certain tech giants successfully lobbied for legal immunity from laws that control other large megaphone media. There is a tendency to view them like the phone companies because that's what we want them to be. It's no longer what they are. The basis for those carve outs is no longer valid. As soon as they began to control the flow of information rather than merely facilitating it, they become publishers and should be treated as such.

Section 4 ToSA
We do not endorse, support, represent or guarantee the completeness, truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any Content or communications posted via the Services or endorse any opinions expressed via the Services. You understand that by using the Services, you may be exposed to Content that might be offensive, harmful, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate, or in some cases, postings that have been mislabeled or are otherwise deceptive. Under no circumstances will Twitter be liable in any way for any Content, including, but not limited to, any errors or omissions in any Content, or any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the use of any Content posted, emailed, transmitted or otherwise made available via the Services or broadcast elsewhere.

 

[NeoSound]

There's way too much embittered, old, white male all up in this thread for my tastes.

Signed,
Embittered, old, white male

The lack of freedom of speech in the West is not even close to being in the Top Ten
of pressing issues. Might not even be Top Hundred.

Who knows, maybe some of you all are from Russia or China---where censorship is deep and
real---and I am just making dumb-ass assumptions again.

Opinions aren't skin colors or a race. Some don't really have an opinion other than to not like yours, which the media likes to help everyone out with nowadays. Old people aren't always bitter, wisdom has proven what works and what doesn't and it's difficult to watch people rebel and build on a foundation which will surely crumble.

Hmmm....intrinsically political thread is political.

I think I can get away with saying free speech is always good and the answer to "bad" speech is always, always more speech.

Is it even speech anymore, when words and narratives are crafted to steer you a certain direction rather than require you to think for yourself?

So free speech full of hatred and trying to incite violence is OK? Jeeezzz!

Shunning/cancelling/censoring someone for what they believe is inciting hate and usually leads to some sort of protest, violence included. All of this stuff is information and useful parts can come from both sides, yet now people are pretty much taught to hate each other for their stance on an single idea! You can have great value as a person and I don't have to hate you just because you like Gibson and I like Fender.

 

[Stratman68]

People pick their villians based on the garbage news they listen to. Yes some\most\all are biased. But then you have some that outright LIE and MISLEAD. I am so tired of this deep state BS and the FBI and CIA are our enemies. Total paranoid BS.............

 

[Stratman68]

The notion of WHITE AMERICA is the single biggest issue today that threatens America. I am an old white guy, combat vet and do NOT SUBSCRIBE to the White America BS. Second of course is Big $$$ on ALL sides!
I, for one, believe America, the one I grew up in is doomed to fail thanks to these 2 issue! Really sad!

 

[Dave Merrill]

The thing about modern life is that though we're somewhat aware of happenings all over the world, we mostly have zero actual experience of what actually happened. because we weren't there. 99.999% of everything we "know" we heard from someone else.

So it's all about networks of trust. You trust a source because this other source you "trust" says you should, not because you were there and actually know that what they're saying is the truth.

Or, this purported fact is probably not true, because a person that I "know" is constantly a self-serving lying bully said it is. They've become the boy who lied wolf. Might be true, this one time, but they've torched their credibility with me.

 

[ElectricPhase]

Is it even speech anymore, when words and narratives are crafted to steer you a certain direction rather than require you to think for yourself?

That's nothing new.

What is new is that some believe that they should be coddled, protected, and safe-spaced.

The world has always been and always will be a rough and tumble, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest arena. Thinking for oneself is a basic survival skill...that unfortunately isn't being sufficiently emphasized for the newcomers.

 

[fcs101]

The problem is too many people are equating Twitter to a free speech platform. It is not, and never has been. They are a corporation with shareholders and a terms of service agreement. (Whether you read it or not). They are not a public utility. Your free speech rights end at their ToSA if you use their platform.

That's true. I think the issue that some have though is that these big tech platforms have become so integral to society and communication that censorship is a concern. It's a bit like when AT&T had to be broken up over monopolistic behavior; it became a concern once it's value to society became so large and evident. I see parallels here.

 

[marsonic]

So free speech full of hatred and trying to incite violence is OK? Jeeezzz!

Apparently celebrations of it are:

There are countless examples of people both calling for and celebrating violence so long as it's in one of a select few directions.

Here are another few examples calling for a repeat of an anti-Sikh mass murder:

Here's another political leader praising violence:

And here is a link to the active account: https://twitter.com/chedetofficial

On the other hand, these are 2 tweets that twitter cited for why they removed Trump:

1. “The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”
2. “To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.”

Like him or hate him, I don't care.

But the idea that those rules are applied even remotely fairly is a joke.

The problem is too many people are equating Twitter to a free speech platform. It is not, and never has been. They are a corporation with shareholders and a terms of service agreement. (Whether you read it or not). They are not a public utility. Your free speech rights end at their ToSA if you use their platform.

Twitter's UK GM once described it as "the free speech wing of the free speech party" https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-wang-free-speech