Anyone use power amp sims on with tube power?

R

rpurdue

Member
Hey all. I have a standard running through a mesa 2:90 into an early 70's hiwatt 4x12 and i'm LUVIN the tones!! I play pretty loud so i keep PA sims and cab sims off. I'm just wondering if anyone out there uses their Axe with sims on through a non transparent tube power section? If you do, where do you like to set the SAG, DEPTH controls etc?

Cheers!
 
I'm running my Axe through 2 monoblock tube amps and 2 Marshall 4x12 V30 cabs. I don't use the cab sims (tried but didn't like), but I have run both with, and without the PA sim on. At first I had the PA sim on, and then after about a month, I started turning it off. When on, I tend to run the Sag on 5, or lower, and the Damp fairly high. My tube amp doesn't seem to color the tone much, and uses 6L6 power tubes, which tend to stay a little "stiffer" sounding than EL34's.
 
Thanks for the info! I LOVE my mesa 2:90 but a transparent power amp it's not lol! It thickens anything i put through it and compresses awesome!! I think like you stated above it may be best to leave them off. I think i'm going to rent a powered monitor and try the full frequency approach and compare the two!
 
Rpurdue:
As a FORMER owner of a standard 4x12 360w guitar cabinet, i feel compelled to tell you that once you plug into a full range flat response set of PA speakers that can handle the power.... you will buy a set. IMO, there is NO comparison between using standard cabs and using an FRFR setup, the highs come to life and cut through, the lows become crystal clear, and being that PA speakers have internal crossovers, your sound doesn't run into itself or sound muddy.
I use Peavey PV215 cabinets, ran me only about $300 each, well worth every penny. These are passive, so I use a non-tube power amp and i keep the cab and power amp sims on, and i adjust the sag/presence/depth to taste for each patch. You definately need to play around with your sound, very few of the factory patches were usuable without some tweaking for the music I play but part of the fun of this unit is that you have this "room" full of great gear at your disposal. Let me know how you like the FRFR's if/when you try them out!
Mitch
 
I was messing around today with AFX and a VHT2:50:2.
At low (bedroom) levels I thought power amp on but thump off sounded the best.

Once we started to wind it up I ended up preferring the power amp being turned off in a lot of cases.
 
At home I have a Fender blues deluxe in my bedroom that I use when I have my Axe there. I plugged into the return and ran the Axe through the power amp & speakers. I don't turn it up too loud, more or less bedroom levels. Then one time, going through some stuff I came across a battery powered Marshall MS-2 'toy' solid state amp sitting around. So I thought I would try hooking that up to the Axe as well as a 'tweeter'. Well, without the amp and cab sims the Marshall sounded horrible. So I turned those sims on and together that and the Fender sounded great for just playing at home.

Later, listening to the Fender by itself I found that I actually liked it better with both the cabs and amp sims on! It probably wouldn't sound that great if I really turned it up loud, but it seems to add a bit of graininess, a bit more detail, for low level playing.

With the MS-2 they give me a nice kind of lo-fi hi-fi system. :lol:
 
I also have the 2:90, great power amp - sometimes dark though. I actually did use it with the amp sim on and thought it sounded less dark. I am currently using my friends Mesa 20/20. Great little stereo amp (and a hell of a lot lighter), but now my sounds is brighter, almost to a fault with the present settings.

I am running into a 412, loaded with Vintage 30s. I am very interested in all of the postings, with others having luck running through the PA (FOH) using map and cab sims. I can't seem to get over the brittle sound. I guess I will have to keep playing with it.
 
DF400 said:
I also have the 2:90, great power amp - sometimes dark though. I actually did use it with the amp sim on and thought it sounded less dark. I am currently using my friends Mesa 20/20. Great little stereo amp (and a hell of a lot lighter), but now my sounds is brighter, almost to a fault with the present settings.

I am running into a 412, loaded with Vintage 30s. I am very interested in all of the postings, with others having luck running through the PA (FOH) using map and cab sims. I can't seem to get over the brittle sound. I guess I will have to keep playing with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks DF400! I love my 2:90 to death (other than the weight of course!). I'm interested how you run your volume on your power amp? I usually keep mine just short of maxed....which i guess is why it colours the sound so much. I'b also be interested in trying some of your patches if you are open to that. I recently rented a yorkville 750 watt powered FRFR and it sounded "OK" but no where near as good as my traditional power amp/cab setup. This may be because i'm not accustomed to a mic'ed guitar tone. It seems like it takes more time and tweaking to get a great tone FRFR....my substantial case of ADHD makes this a difficult task ;)
 
Mitch91 said:
Rpurdue:
As a FORMER owner of a standard 4x12 360w guitar cabinet, i feel compelled to tell you that once you plug into a full range flat response set of PA speakers that can handle the power.... you will buy a set. IMO, there is NO comparison between using standard cabs and using an FRFR setup, the highs come to life and cut through, the lows become crystal clear, and being that PA speakers have internal crossovers, your sound doesn't run into itself or sound muddy.
I use Peavey PV215 cabinets, ran me only about $300 each, well worth every penny. These are passive, so I use a non-tube power amp and i keep the cab and power amp sims on, and i adjust the sag/presence/depth to taste for each patch. You definately need to play around with your sound, very few of the factory patches were usuable without some tweaking for the music I play but part of the fun of this unit is that you have this "room" full of great gear at your disposal. Let me know how you like the FRFR's if/when you try them out!
Mitch
Click to expand...

I'm all for getting a good bang for the buck, but not into wasting my money. As these are fairly inexpensive, have you (or anyone else) compared these to any of the higher priced cabs discussed on the forum (Atomic, QSC...)? I'm liking the fact that they are a tall cab, and they've definitely got me curious.
 
Hi Rpurdue,
Yeah, it's a great amp for sure. Nice thing about cranking it is that you get that nice fat tube compression. I have tried several hookups, but there's nothing like moving air with a 4x12! I would gladly share settings with all, but I am still new and find myself just tooling around with others settings - seeing what works for me. Do you run the DEEP, MODERN, or HALF settings on the amp at all?
 
rpurdue said:
Hey all. I have a standard running through a mesa 2:90 into an early 70's hiwatt 4x12 and i'm LUVIN the tones!! I play pretty loud so i keep PA sims and cab sims off. I'm just wondering if anyone out there uses their Axe with sims on through a non transparent tube power section? If you do, where do you like to set the SAG, DEPTH controls etc?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

With the 2:90, if you ever want to simulate the sound of power amp distortion, like a small Fender amp cranked but at any volume level, you could use the Axe's power amp sim to accomplish that effect.

The only other way to get that with the 2:90 is to switch it to half-power mode, and even then it'll have to be played really loud to get it to break up. But if you do it that way then any prisine time-based effects like reverb that you're using will also get distorted by the 2:90.
But if you keep the 2:90 set up for maximum headroom and do your power amp distortion sim in the Axe then any effects you have that are post Amp Block will still retain their integrity although their tone will be coloured by the 2:90.

But generally speaking, if you're not simulating power amp distortion you'll probably want to leave the Axe's power amp sims off.

Still, there's lots of folks on this board who love the sound they get by keeping the power amp sims on even when running through non-transparent tube power amp.

There's no rules. Just norms.
 
DF400 said:
Hi Rpurdue,
Yeah, it's a great amp for sure. Nice thing about cranking it is that you get that nice fat tube compression. I have tried several hookups, but there's nothing like moving air with a 4x12! I would gladly share settings with all, but I am still new and find myself just tooling around with others settings - seeing what works for me. Do you run the DEEP, MODERN, or HALF settings on the amp at all?
Click to expand...

Thanks DF400,

I downloaded all RACA's patches and they sound amazing! I'm not sure if i like it with or without power sims....they both sound great in their own way. Currently i'm using the DEEP but haven't tried MODERN yet. What about you? If you haven't yet try out RACA's patches....well worth it!
 
joegold said:
rpurdue said:
Hey all. I have a standard running through a mesa 2:90 into an early 70's hiwatt 4x12 and i'm LUVIN the tones!! I play pretty loud so i keep PA sims and cab sims off. I'm just wondering if anyone out there uses their Axe with sims on through a non transparent tube power section? If you do, where do you like to set the SAG, DEPTH controls etc?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

With the 2:90, if you ever want to simulate the sound of power amp distortion, like a small Fender amp cranked but at any volume level, you could use the Axe's power amp sim to accomplish that effect.

The only other way to get that with the 2:90 is to switch it to half-power mode, and even then it'll have to be played really loud to get it to break up. But if you do it that way then any prisine time-based effects like reverb that you're using will also get distorted by the 2:90.
But if you keep the 2:90 set up for maximum headroom and do your power amp distortion sim in the Axe then any effects you have that are post Amp Block will still retain their integrity although their tone will be coloured by the 2:90.

But generally speaking, if you're not simulating power amp distortion you'll probably want to leave the Axe's power amp sims off.

Still, there's lots of folks on this board who love the sound they get by keeping the power amp sims on even when running through non-transparent tube power amp.

There's no rules. Just norms.
Click to expand...


Thanks joegold for the info!

I made some patches and doubled them. One WITH power sims and one WITHOUT power sims. I keep going back to back and they both sound great. I find no matter what volume the 2:90 is at it seems brighter with sims off but stays tighter. Wish sims on it thickens it up but seems a little more squishier i guess. I'd like to find a nice compromise between the two if possible. I guess lowering the SAG and increasing the DAMPING might be the trick.
 
Thanks guys,
Excellent advise. I will try both AMP SIM on and off again and check out RACA's presets. The learning curve is quite steep, and I guess I'm a slow learner...
 
rpurdue said:
Thanks joegold for the info!

I made some patches and doubled them. One WITH power sims and one WITHOUT power sims. I keep going back to back and they both sound great. I find no matter what volume the 2:90 is at it seems brighter with sims off but stays tighter. Wish sims on it thickens it up but seems a little more squishier i guess. I'd like to find a nice compromise between the two if possible. I guess lowering the SAG and increasing the DAMPING might be the trick.
Click to expand...

Unless you're using the Axe's power amp sim to create the effect of power amp distortion you'll probably want to keep its Master parameter pretty low (below 12:00) if you're running through the 2:90 with power amp sim on.
 
I use Mesa 50/50 poweramp, A pair of 2x12, with V30/G25.. Volum on the poweramp at 6, presence at 5, and power sim on. Cab sim after fx loop.. Loud enough :mrgreen:

Extremly happy with what comes out :D
 
Kriig said:
I use Mesa 50/50 poweramp, A pair of 2x12, with V30/G25.. Volum on the poweramp at 6, presence at 5, and power sim on. Cab sim after fx loop.. Loud enough :mrgreen:

Extremly happy with what comes out :D
Click to expand...

Hi:

I'm curious about your use of the Cab Sim with real Cabs. Do you use the Cab sims to emulate other cabs through your real cabs, or do you just find the overall tone better with cab sim on through real cabs.

Also, I'm thinking of buying a Mesa 50/50 for my 2x12 marshalls so I'd like to get your thoughts on the one you have. Does it colour the sound a lot. Do you think it rivals a VHT 2:50:2 in terms of quality of tone?
 
sprint said:
Kriig said:
I use Mesa 50/50 poweramp, A pair of 2x12, with V30/G25.. Volum on the poweramp at 6, presence at 5, and power sim on. Cab sim after fx loop.. Loud enough :mrgreen:

Extremly happy with what comes out :D
Click to expand...

Hi:

I'm curious about your use of the Cab Sim with real Cabs. Do you use the Cab sims to emulate other cabs through your real cabs, or do you just find the overall tone better with cab sim on through real cabs.

Also, I'm thinking of buying a Mesa 50/50 for my 2x12 marshalls so I'd like to get your thoughts on the one you have. Does it colour the sound a lot. Do you think it rivals a VHT 2:50:2 in terms of quality of tone?
Click to expand...

I do not use cab sims on the cabs. I tap the signal to the poweramp from loop send on the Axe.. The sims comes after the loop, only to out 1, and i use out 1 if i go direct. I´ve never tried VHT. The Mesa does the job. Since it sound this good, i won´t mess it up by trying other poweramps ;)

The Marshall 100/100 was very good to, but even more weight :p
 
Kriig said:
I use Mesa 50/50 poweramp, A pair of 2x12, with V30/G25.. Volum on the poweramp at 6, presence at 5, and power sim on. Cab sim after fx loop.. Loud enough :mrgreen:

Extremly happy with what comes out :D
Click to expand...


So with usin power sims on with a tube power amp do you adjust the sag and damping?
 
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