Any tips for making the higher gainers sound as open as the low gainers?

TheGoatLord

TheGoatLord

Experienced
So here is my issue. My low gain stuff sounds amazing and my high gain stuff (atomica with TS808 in front only for level boost) sounds fantastic! My issue is going between the two the higher gain amps always sound suuuuuuper compressed compared to the low gain stuff and in relation to each other, the clarity drops significantly. Maybe I'm just not dialing in the right frequencies but as soon as I switch over to the higher gain stuff my tone sounds slightly boxy and squashed even though when I play it just on its own, I think it sounds great. I've got the xformer match down a bit, damp up, running my MV around 5, and the power amp bias down just a hair. I'm not sure if it's cab selection or mic selection or if I just need to throw in a peq or something somewhere but any tips are more than welcome!
 
High-gain stuff is super-compressed compared to low-gain stuff. That's how it is with real amps, too.

As for the clarity problem, try cutting back the lows going into the amp sim. You can try the Low Cut Freq and Pwr Amp Locut prameters for this. The Definition parameter should help, too.
 
Rex said:
High-gain stuff is super-compressed compared to low-gain stuff. That's how it is with real amps, too.

As for the clarity problem, try cutting back the lows going into the amp sim. You can try the Low Cut Freq and Pwr Amp Locut prameters for this. The Definition parameter should help, too.
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It does seem like the lows tend to swallow everything. I'll give those a shot. Thanks Rex!
 
You may want to take a look at the room parameter in the cabinet block as well. There's also an air parameter that might help even though I don't notice too much going on with that one most of the time. It just gives it more space or something somehow.
 
Rex said:
High-gain stuff is super-compressed compared to low-gain stuff. That's how it is with real amps, too.

As for the clarity problem, try cutting back the lows going into the amp sim. You can try the Low Cut Freq and Pwr Amp Locut prameters for this. The Definition parameter should help, too.
Click to expand...

I have found the Input Trim to help as well. Drop the Input Trim a bit, on some amps you can drop this quite a bit and still stay pretty heavy. You may even be able to raise gain but stay tighter trying this. Increase the Damping setting even more. Here again you can increase this quite a bit until the amp starts to sound tighter. I usually start with dialing in Low Cut Freq and Power Amp Lowcut as Rex suggested, then Damping and Definition. Then if I still need it, I drop the Input Trim. Also check the Supply Sag Control, lowering this will help as well, off defeats Power Amp sim, so not too far, lol. Lower the Master even further if you need to, then bump the EQ to compensate for any lows you might lose.
 
Drop the TS808 for starters.

Also, having lower input trim and higher drive will be flubbier, especially with the bright on. The input trim is just a front end boost(cut, and does nothing tone-shaping wise.
 
I found a few things that help with my, "not wanting too much compression quandary".

First you could try backing off the compression on (the now) second page of the amp block, (beside the Treble). Also in the "Dynamics Page", I found if you back off the "Dynamics" somewhat, (in the neg.) and the "Xformer Match", (below the value of 1.000), this eases the compression issue with high gainers and they become more open and the amp starts to breath. You may find that both parameters work for you or maybe just one of them. Use your ears to taste. The "Dynamics" page... it's a very, very powerful page. You may want to drop the "Sag" a bit as well but not too much. IMO that is the page to rectify the "too much compression" issue.

... this is my CPR page for high gainer amps.
 
Just an update. I tried a variety of all these tips and the problem is solved! Everything's breathing and open now and I'm just loving it! Thank you all for the help!


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Cool! What things did the most to get you where you want to be?
 
Glad you got it sorted, for me to get high gain working I actually use significantly less gain than I think I need. This opens things up and it still sounds heavy.

Spence

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xpenno said:
...for me to get high gain working I actually use significantly less gain than I think I need. This opens things up and it still sounds heavy.
Click to expand...
It's amazing how often the answer is "less gain." :)
 
The biggest thing was dropping the TS808. I'm so used to putting this before an amp I never even tried without it. Aside from that, turning sag and xformer match down more had a big impact. The power amp Low cut took some messing with but that really got rid of the mud and made the notes much more even.

It wasn't really one magic knob that did it but small tweaks across the board added up to a big change! Hope my experience helps some of you too!


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Glad to hear you got things sorted and situated for yourself.

Also what I like to do as well, (although it was what you diverted from) is turn down the gain on the amp and use your favorite drive pedal in front. For me this tightens things up, quicker pick attack and lets the amp breath more without it getting overly compressed. This has the same effect with their real world counterparts. I'm simply amazed that the Axe replicates these sort intricate interactions in the virtual domain as in the real.
 
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