Any tap dancers?

1

12fd

Member
New to the FM3 and contemplating getting a footswitch. Getting the FC6 just makes me nauseous because I should just have gotten the FM9 to begin with, and I'd rather sell the FM3 and eat a loss on that and get the FM9 rather than having the same number of footswitches with 1/2 the processing power and same footprint etc., with an FM3+FC6 for pretty close to the same amount of money the FM9 costs.

I used to run a rack with a Ground Control and when everything was dialed perfectly it was great, but as venues change and you needed to edit a reverb or delay on the spot it got tiresome feeling boxed in, so I went back to pedals for many years where I could just bend down and be done with it.

I find the FM3 UI to be pretty easy to change a parameter on the fly (the double-clicking A B C D E for Amp, Drive, Cab, Delay, Reverb is genius - give that guy a raise), so I think I could deal with gig global edits pretty easily but still need some other functionality that comes with the hold functions.

So basically needing to preset/scene bank up/down, have control over delay, drive, and maybe another effect. So, with the factory settings, it's hold the button 2, select Presets, Scenes, Effects, and then click one of those to get to what you need to so we're talking at least a hold and tap before getting to a menu you need.

So wondering what solutions everyone is running and if there are people using just the 3 buttons and navigating through menus during songs etc. I have not yet taken it to a gig as I feel the need to learn it better as well as get a couple of expression pedals set up.

Question: When you hold the left button and it banks down and is flashing, is there a way to cancel? I have to bank back up and select the preset I'm already on or if I middle hold and get Presets, Scenes, Effects and select Presets, it's back at the same menu flashing.

Thanks.
 
you're referring to the Default Footswitch Layouts (what the switches do).

this is a great way to learn the device as it separates the various functions into the different layouts (presets, scenes, effects, etc)

once you get a handle of how the system works and what is available, i think the best thing to do is make the switches do what you need them to, removing the default layout basically.

i show this in a video i made, starts around the 8:10 mark:

 
chris said:
you're referring to the Default Footswitch Layouts (what the switches do).

this is a great way to learn the device as it separates the various functions into the different layouts (presets, scenes, effects, etc)

once you get a handle of how the system works and what is available, i think the best thing to do is make the switches do what you need them to, removing the default layout basically.

i show this in a video i made, starts around the 8:10 mark:

Click to expand...

Thanks Chris. You did a good job on that video, btw.

I realize the layouts are very customizable. My question is how many people are able to navigate the 3 buttons on the FM3 without the use of an external footswitch in a variety band setting where set list changes frequently happen mid-song.

If I buy an FC6, my problem is solved, but I want to see if sticking with the FM3 without adding other switches would work. If everyone's experiences says it sucks to try and deal with a bunch of tap/holds, then I would likely sell it and just get the FM9.
 
it really depends what you need to press at one moment in time.

if you can arrange your tones (presets or scenes) in a way that you can either just scroll forward through them, you need one switch.
if you constantly have to go back and forth among 8 different sounds at any time, sure more switches can help with that.
add on i always need access to these 4 effects at any time... you see where this goes.

i have 4 scenes on one switch (toggle for both tap and hold) and fortunately i have time to get to that 2nd toggle on the hold function when i play. that leaves me with Tap and Tuner on another switch, and then a few effects on one switch, or a Hold function to change Views to reveal 3 more switch options. that's plenty for what i do. i have 6 main tones.

3 switches only gives you 3 things to immediately change. if you truly need more than 3 immediate things able to change, you might want more footswitches. depends on the music and gig, but many have been able to streamline their tones which allows them to use less footswitches.
 
Adding a simple and inexpensive 2-button momentary switch to one of the Pedal jacks almost doubles the capabilities of the FM3 (FM5?). You could even add two of them if you don't need an expression pedal. Set them up as 'Stand-in Switches' and they can do anything that the built-in switches can do. Just without the LED indication.

Great for stuff that doesn't really need LEDs. Tap Tempo/Tuner, Select or toggle Layouts or Views, Solo boost, Momentary effects, etc.. Can even be different functions in certain presets via 'Per-Preset Overrides'.
 
my personal goal is to reduce tap dancing as much as possible. even if i had a 56 switch setup, that's just too many options, and you have to rehearse pressing all those switches, where everything is.

i added a Boss FS7 switch recently for 2 more switches, using Stand-In functions. i put tap tempo on it, a specific delay channel, a few more scenes and a reverb effect. so cool that any normal switch can do any FC function with Stand-In.

here's a video on stand in:


and here's a video about adding switches, FC, simple switches, and MIDI controllers. this one is from a live stream so there's more talking than a streamlined pre-recorded video, maybe skip through it:

 
chris said:
my personal goal is to reduce tap dancing as much as possible. even if i had a 56 switch setup, that's just too many options, and you have to rehearse pressing all those switches, where everything is.

i added a Boss FS7 switch recently for 2 more switches, using Stand-In functions. i put tap tempo on it, a specific delay channel, a few more scenes and a reverb effect. so cool that any normal switch can do any FC function with Stand-In.

here's a video on stand in:


and here's a video about adding switches, FC, simple switches, and MIDI controllers. this one is from a live stream so there's more talking than a streamlined pre-recorded video, maybe skip through it:

Click to expand...

Just checked out your channel 👍
Good stuff!
 
Moke said:
Adding a simple and inexpensive 2-button momentary switch to one of the Pedal jacks almost doubles the capabilities of the FM3 (FM5?). You could even add two of them if you don't need an expression pedal. Set them up as 'Stand-in Switches' and they can do anything that the built-in switches can do. Just without the LED indication.

Great for stuff that doesn't really need LEDs. Tap Tempo/Tuner, Select or toggle Layouts or Views, Solo boost, Momentary effects, etc.. Can even be different functions in certain presets via 'Per-Preset Overrides'.
Click to expand...

Thank you. The option of running small stand in switches was one of the reasons I opted for the FM3 over the FM9 - that and the large displays. I just didn't think I'd like the platform so much and that the FM9 with large displays was going to be released a month later, lol. Had I known that before, I would have dealt with having a unit twice the size.

chris said:
my personal goal is to reduce tap dancing as much as possible. even if i had a 56 switch setup, that's just too many options, and you have to rehearse pressing all those switches, where everything is.
Click to expand...

That's my goal, too, but only having 3 switches seems like there will be a lot of tap dancing vs having 9. I only have to control 3 effects mid-song pretty much.

I'll probably go with a stand in switch. I did look at the Nux and Airstep recently, or maybe I'll just take it on a gig and be forced to sink or swim. Thanks.
 
i've always used an extra midi controller + 2 button switch along with the FM3

i initially used a Hotone 4 button midi controller (which also had banks, so i could switch to say Scenes 1-4 and then Scenes 5-8 on two banks that i'd use) and have a 2 button footswitch in case for either quick on/off of effects and so on, the hotone is around 100 euros, worked a charm

i've since upgraded to a Morningstar MC8 controller + 2 button footswitch, the Morningstar does pretty much everything i want (including setting BPM on songs we play)

IMG_20240303_111431968~2.jpg
 
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I use an xsonic Airstep.

Small form factor, 5 switches. 4 banks (or five I just use one lol)
Scene 1>5 on press
Scene 6>8 on hold.
I got a general volume pedal attached to it ( you can plug two expression pedal to it)
On the fm3 I just use the 3 switches for effects. So 6 effects possible on one preset.

I also have a ampero Hotone ( 2 switches). One for tap tempo. The other is used for a cs midi that I use to engage comp/drive/delay in one switching

I hate tap dancing and it’s working really great.
 
I very much co-sign Voes. Love it! Wanna get an MX-5 to go with my MX-9.

IMG_0305.jpeg

This is almost it's final form. The Blackstar is really not necessary at all, but my brain can't figure out how to [press and hold] buttons. At some point, I will be getting the MX-5 to replace it, because the LED lights above the switches on the Voes stuff is perfect. When I don't see them on the Blackstar, I'm sad... This works great with my FM3, and would probably be just as good with an Axe FXIII or any other digital thingy. The Voes is for the scenes, with 9 being Tuner. I had it also as tap tempo before, but again... [press and hold]. The Blackstar (eventually the Voes MX-5) is for presets, same with 5 and 6. I don't have them for Bank up and down.

I made a preset in the FM3 using "scene ignore" that turned the Voes into a Pedal Board and the Blackstar into an "amp switcher" but I haven't used it since shortly after I made it. I think if I did different things when I played that I would, but right now, I barely need what it does already. I debated an FC6/12 for awhile and almost ordered one a few times, but not only do I not need what it's capable of, I don't even want that shit lol It's too much to deal with
 
The problem with the Hotone is that the switches are too close and due to that you sometimes change banks without knowing you did as there is no indication on the display, same for CC values. I kicked it out after 1 month and got the MX-5. The three buttons of the FM3 will do the job if you play all your set with 3 patches. If not, in my case at least, my brain is too small to remember all the short cuts with the buttons and keeping up with my fellow musicians and the audience all in the same time. So I' d recommend either to add switches and an MX-5 that do the job for me or buy an FM9.
 
Patzag said:
Or you can do a search for OMG3 or such for layouts that do what you want using only 3 switches.

Edit-Here’s the OP
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...w-to-use-the-3-switches-by-themselves.161070/
Click to expand...

I never had any doubt that the FM3 can do everything I want it to do with only 3 switches; the concern was how practical it would be with only 3 switches in gigging situations where the heat is on. Judging by a lot of people posting their rigs with an extra 2-14 switches, most people would prefer additions rather than tap dancing on 3 buttons, risking getting lost in tap/hold sequences.

I imported your layouts and they seem like layouts that will give players the greatest chance of succeeding in a working environment. Thank you so much for posting them!

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1) in the Utility menu for Level: when selecting +/-, the result is the preset being stored at the new volume. However, if going into the Effects menu and turning off, say a delay, and then going into the Utility menu and adjusting the volume, the preset is overwritten with the delay off. Is there a way to modify that where the Amp block changes volume without it storing the preset? I can see problems happening with the new volume not being stored, too, but not sure yet which would be more problematic. In either case, I probably will just continue to use a volume pedal.

2) in the Scenes menu, when switch 3 is held on scenes 7/8/X it will bring you back to scenes 1/2/3. When on 1/2/3, is there a way to add a hold button 1 and have it cycle backward to 7/8/X?

Thanks again for sharing your layouts.
 
Joshua_L said:
I use an xsonic Airstep.

Small form factor, 5 switches. 4 banks (or five I just use one lol)
Scene 1>5 on press
Scene 6>8 on hold.
I got a general volume pedal attached to it ( you can plug two expression pedal to it)
On the fm3 I just use the 3 switches for effects. So 6 effects possible on one preset.

I also have a ampero Hotone ( 2 switches). One for tap tempo. The other is used for a cs midi that I use to engage comp/drive/delay in one switching

I hate tap dancing and it’s working really great.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was looking at the Airstep last week. Will probably go with that if the OMG3 requires too much tap dancing for my requirements.

So buttons 1-5 are scenes 1-5 on tap, and buttons 1-3 on hold are scenes 6-8? Are the 3 buttons on the FM3 showing presets?

Does the unit take both insert jacks on the FM3 and you can plug two expressions pedals into the Airstep?
 
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