Any Singers.... Or Wanna-Be Singers Here?

[la szum]

I’m a HUGE AIC fan, so when he had Dave Jerden on, I was beyond stoked. When those isolated tracks starting popping up on YouTube, the AIC ones were always my favorites because you can hear Layne clearing his throat between lines, the breaths he’d take….there’s a lot to be learned in those isolated tracks, for sure.

I think Jerden is a little bit cooked at this point, but he’s still a wealth of knowledge and I’d LOVE to sit down with him and just hear stories sometime.

Haha! "Cooked" may be understating it a little.

He'd definitely be a righteous hang. Warren does such a great job
with those episodes. You can tell that the other Producers must
really respect and like him. They are such a treat to watch, enjoy,
and learn from, like you say.

 

[la szum]

While we’ve predominantly been discussing “singing” in this thread, I figured I’d drop in a quick example of some of the more aggressive stuff I’m working on right now. I’ve had this song sitting around for 4 years and didn’t know what to do with the vocals, but last night as I was feeling a bit pissed off, I figured it out.



Shitty IPhone movie pointed at my monitors, but it gets the point across. It’s been a while since I was getting that aggressive with my voice, so I was feeling it a bit after the hour I spent on that…..but I’m ready to go in and bang the rest out today!

That's f'ing SICK!! Dude. How are you not toasted from the neck up??

You have a booth? Some kind of isolation? Just curious about your process.

Thanks for sharing. Very inspiring!!

 

[RevDrucifer]

That's f'ing SICK!! Dude. How are you not toasted from the neck up??

You have a booth? Some kind of isolation? Just curious about your process.

Thanks for sharing. Very inspiring!!

No booth, I sit right in front of my monitors, about 3’ away with an SM7B in my hand and just go nuts. I rarely even use headphones and I track pretty damn loud, but the 7B is pretty good at not picking everything else up. I rarely even edit the spaces between words unless it’s really obtuse.

As for not being toasted, well, I wasn’t feeling in tip top shape last night but I was ready to go again today! I wasn’t doing the totally safe way of screaming when I tracked that as it wasn’t allowing itself to get the right desperation in my voice out, so those are the times I gotta think, “If I’m going to do this, I need to get it in like 3 takes at the most because my throat will be toast.”.

For the most part though, it’s all technique. So hard to describe and I think I said in this thread already, but it’s just above speaking volume (except the higher pitched stuff, that gets louder) and there’s really not a lot of throat pressure. Next time I sneeze, I’ll try to remember to record it, because that’s the easiest way I’ve been able to show people how to do it. The “Ah-choo”; the “Ah” part is your breath in, but you want to keep your throat as open and relaxed on the “choo” part, mixed in with what I said about the golfball in the back of your throat.

 

[RevDrucifer]

That's f'ing SICK!! Dude. How are you not toasted from the neck up??

You have a booth? Some kind of isolation? Just curious about your process.

Thanks for sharing. Very inspiring!!

Actually, I dug through some YouTube vids from my past bands. This particular video shows a lot of what I went through before decided I had to kick everyone out of the studio and learn how to record myself. You'll see spots on here where I pull off perfect takes but was asked to do it again for.....whatever reason. These actual sessions are what blew my throat out and caused me to take a year off.

 

[acwild]

I used to play in an acoustic duo with a female singer. It was just the two of us and I felt completely exposed. There was nothing to hide behind as it was just my acoustic guitar and the two of our voices. That was really the best learning experience. If you want to sing, strum on an acoustic and just start singing. You can hear if your pitch is off against the chords that you play.

Regarding Ken Tamplin, I got a lot of great tips from watching his videos. That tongue of his is a little freaky though. I also love to watch Elizabeth Zharoff’s channel on YouTube “The Charismatic Voice.” She’s an opera singer who critiques other singers, especially metal vocalists. The comments that she makes are very insightful for a lot of things that I just never thought of as a vocalist. For instance, she was critiquing “The Sound of Silence” (Disturbed version) and she zeroed in on how he accented the “R” sound when he sang “Whispered.” She said that it’s a sound that singers are taught to avoid as it’s not a good sound but that he made it work as a statement. It’s also cool that she seems to be a big fan of Dio and Bruce Dickinson having never heard them before.

 

[la szum]

Regarding Ken Tamplin, I got a lot of great tips from watching his videos. That tongue of his is a little freaky though. I also love to watch Elizabeth Zharoff’s channel on YouTube “The Charismatic Voice.” She’s an opera singer who critiques other singers, especially metal vocalists. The comments that she makes are very insightful for a lot of things that I just never thought of as a vocalist. For instance, she was critiquing “The Sound of Silence” (Disturbed version) and she zeroed in on how he accented the “R” sound when he sang “Whispered.” She said that it’s a sound that singers are taught to avoid as it’s not a good sound but that he made it work as a statement. It’s also cool that she seems to be a big fan of Dio and Bruce Dickinson having never heard them before.

Haha! It's like you read my mind.

I know he teaches that freaky tongue business and it is part of
his technique. Not sure I am that committed.

 

[la szum]

Is it wrong to not jive with singers who exhibit a ton of control and not much
abandon? Or is that sense of abandon a projection of mine? I just feel like my
favourite singers have a go for broke attitude and they are deeply connected
with the emotional content of a song, while those who have great "control" sound
kind of sterile and boring to me?

Maybe that sense of abandon is just an illusion---and it is all control and technique.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Is it wrong to not jive with singers who exhibit a ton of control and not much
abandon? Or is that sense of abandon a projection of mine? I just feel like my
favourite singers have a go for broke attitude and they are deeply connected
with the emotional content of a song, while those who have great "control" sound
kind of sterile and boring to me?

Maybe that sense of abandon is just an illusion---and it is all control and technique.

I know what you’re saying. It’s contextual for me.

Using Layne Staley as an example, Will DuVall is singing his parts now and Will is a GREAT vocalist and does a very respectful job filling Layne’s shoes. But he’s like Diet Layne to me. I’ll go see them anytime they’re around and buy every album, Will’s got all the support in the world from me and it’s not taking anything away from him, but man….

I was just talking about this with someone on FB recently, the whole tortured artist thing. I don’t think you truly HAVE to come from trauma to do something great, but there’s certainly something that it adds to the emotional content of a song. Actually, I was also talking about this in regards to the band Trivium. They catch a lot of flack for the metalcore thing, but they can fuckin’ play their asses off. But there’s a lack of conviction in Matt’s voice that I fully believe is the result of having an admittedly cushy life.

I’m not taking anything away from him, dude busts his ass to maintain his abilities and is always striving for more. I just have to think, if that dude had some kind of trauma in his life, his vocals wouldn’t be as ‘vanilla’ as they’ve been. It’s like they lack conviction.

Then you got guys like Elton John who don’t even write their own lyrics, but when that man sings, you know he’s feeling every bit he’s singing.

Ultimately, I think it’s what we as the listener take from it. I might not hear conviction in Trivium dude’s voice, but the millions of fans they have may hear it just fine.

I’ve made my stance on how I want my vocals to come across already with my above posts; if I’m trying to convey an emotion, I’ll do whatever I have to do to get it out….even if that means mentally/physically fucking myself over temporarily.

 

[la szum]

I also love to watch Elizabeth Zharoff’s channel on YouTube “The Charismatic Voice.” She’s an opera singer who critiques other singers, especially metal vocalists. The comments that she makes are very insightful for a lot of things that I just never thought of as a vocalist. For instance, she was critiquing “The Sound of Silence” (Disturbed version) and she zeroed in on how he accented the “R” sound when he sang “Whispered.” She said that it’s a sound that singers are taught to avoid as it’s not a good sound but that he made it work as a statement. It’s also cool that she seems to be a big fan of Dio and Bruce Dickinson having never heard them before.

Wow! Thanks. I love her already. DIO fangirl meets DIO fanboi.

 

[la szum]

I know what you’re saying. It’s contextual for me.

Using Layne Staley as an example, Will DuVall is singing his parts now and Will is a GREAT vocalist and does a very respectful job filling Layne’s shoes. But he’s like Diet Layne to me. I’ll go see them anytime they’re around and buy every album, Will’s got all the support in the world from me and it’s not taking anything away from him, but man….

I was just talking about this with someone on FB recently, the whole tortured artist thing. I don’t think you truly HAVE to come from trauma to do something great, but there’s certainly something that it adds to the emotional content of a song. Actually, I was also talking about this in regards to the band Trivium. They catch a lot of flack for the metalcore thing, but they can fuckin’ play their asses off. But there’s a lack of conviction in Matt’s voice that I fully believe is the result of having an admittedly cushy life.

I’m not taking anything away from him, dude busts his ass to maintain his abilities and is always striving for more. I just have to think, if that dude had some kind of trauma in his life, his vocals wouldn’t be as ‘vanilla’ as they’ve been. It’s like they lack conviction.

Then you got guys like Elton John who don’t even write their own lyrics, but when that man sings, you know he’s feeling every bit he’s singing.

Ultimately, I think it’s what we as the listener take from it. I might not hear conviction in Trivium dude’s voice, but the millions of fans they have may hear it just fine.

I’ve made my stance on how I want my vocals to come across already with my above posts; if I’m trying to convey an emotion, I’ll do whatever I have to do to get it out….even if that means mentally/physically fucking myself over temporarily.

GREAT example. I feel the same about Will and current AIC. They were my now 15 year
old son's first concert when he was 5. Lucky kid, eh??

I sort of feel the same way about guitar playing or drums, or even production style. Too
much technique, skill, polish, and not enough abandon, spontaneity, and recklessness and
I feel the entire point of music is kind of lost.

I was listening to a podcast of cellist Tina Gou, who has played live with many rock acts while
growing up in a strict classical educational setting. She said she loathes classical music and
expresses how robotic it is for her play (for her, admittedly). The rock music she plays she said
is technically easier to play, but more emotionally and spiritually fulfilling. I resonated with that.

 

[RevDrucifer]

GREAT example. I feel the same about Will and current AIC. They were my now 15 year
old son's first concert when he was 5. Lucky kid, eh??

I sort of feel the same way about guitar playing or drums, or even production style. Too
much technique, skill, polish, and not enough abandon, spontaneity, and recklessness and
I feel the entire point of music is kind of lost.

I was listening to a podcast of cellist Tina Gou, who has played live with many rock acts while
growing up in a strict classical educational setting. She said she loathes classical music and
expresses how robotic it is for her play (for her, admittedly). The rock music she plays she said
is technically easier to play, but more emotionally and spiritually fulfilling. I resonated with that.

I hear ya about drummers/guitarists as well. Dream Theater is a perfect example of this. IMO, no one can touch 90's Petrucci, but after SFAM/6 Degrees he wasn't playing the same way and it seems technique became more important, or metronomic precision. He hasn't written a solo like "Scarred" or "Lines In The Sand" since that era.

And then you take Portnoy and Manigni. Both incredible drummers and on a technical level, very, very few people can touch Mangini. But listen to Dream Theater live with him and then listen to them with Portnoy....





Portnoy brought ALL the energy to that band. I was just talking about this somewhere....hopefuly not this thread, but I guess Petrucci's gripe with Portnoy for years was that he wouldn't play the songs at the exact tempo, he'd speed up and slow down depending on the mood of the room. Mangini plays everything to the exact BPM it was on the record. That's straight up boring as fuck and sucks all the life out of a live show.

 

[acwild]

Haha! It's like you read my mind.

I know he teaches that freaky tongue business and it is part of
his technique. Not sure I am that committed.

His students that he showcases are absolutely incredible. I don't see them doing his tongue thing, so I think it's more of a matter of what you take from his lessons instead of having to buy into the whole package. Luckily the songs that I sing don't require a lot of vocal skills.

 

[maxdown]

I am wondering if aeorbic/lung capacity helps with singing--since you are essentially just moving air.

Do I need to start running, or better yet..... power-walking with the middle-aged ladies??

No ... but you could always dress and walk on stage like that just to make sure you're warmed up ... unfortunately Mick Jagger already has done it but you'd still be cool if you do it as well ...