Any Singers.... Or Wanna-Be Singers Here?

[la szum]

Use your phone or any handy recording device (nothing fancy) and record yourself singing... It will be clear if/what you need to work on.

Well, that is pretty much everything.

I am not sure if it is a good thing or bad, but I have recorded literally everything I have played, practiced, or wrote
over the years. It's been brutal listening back at times, but you can't fool the audience if you can't fool yourself, right?

It's a great habit. And I have grown to really enjoy it. Play, practice, write and then listen back and pick yourself apart
for what works and what doesn't.

It's also helped make me less defensive over the years to criticism and feedback from others. I just wish some of the
cats I have played with and singers I have backed up and supported would have done the same.

 

[la szum]

Being physically fit doesn't hurt, but you are controlling air more than pushing it. So not 100% necessary.

Can I ask what role volume plays in good singing, or doesn't play? Do you need to be powerful and
push a lot of air, or is more about being in control and pushing less?

I was listening to Producer Michael Beinhorn talking about working in the studio with Chris Cornell
and how he would literally blow up microphones with the power of his voice. Something I didn't even
know was possible.

Granted not everyone can be Chris Cornell, or even wants to sing like that, but I am curious about the
role between volume and tone. Kind of like guitar amps---do you need too turn up the human voice to
get the best mixture of tone and compression? Or am I way off base here?

Anyone? Feel free to chime in!

 

[la szum]

I have been the lead singer or Co-Lead Singer in every duo, trio and full band I have been in..Always played guitar also.
I imagine a "coach" would be cool and you would learn much. But for me, learning music, as in knowing your intervals, etc is the key, for me anyway.
Also, I never, ever try to sing something that is out of my range. Real bad for the pipes. Then the obvious, you don't sing with your throat.
Practice gets you there. For me, anyway! Been doing this for many decades and still sing and play all the time.
An operation (Cervical Spinal Stenosis with titanium implants in my neck kind of changed things. Some rock songs I use to sing in original key, like Hollywood Nights and others, I have had to lower the key. I think the surgeon hit something he wasn't suppose to during the operation.
My story and I'm sticking to it!

Wow, man. That sounds kind of scary. Props to you for sticking with it. Pretty bad ass
to goo through that and still be out there throwing it down.

 

[la szum]

Yeah, it takes a special kind of person to be a lead vocalist in a rock band. And more often then not they tend to be prima donnas. And prima donnas make life hell for everyone. So I get the rants. Boy do I get the rants.

I don't think I will ever be the world's greatest lead vocalist. I always say I can do everything with music, except sing. I'd settle for being a decent backing vocalist but I was scarred for life as a teen when my family made fun of me singing along to music in my room. These days my experience of singing along in my car have at least taught me the limitations of my voice, and I think I might sound decent if I took some lessons, but the old trauma of being mocked as a teen and just not liking how my voice sounds when recorded have kept me from doing that.

No one can be as shitty to us as our own flesh and blood sometimes. If they can't do it
then it seems like it is gonna be a "friend" who presumes their own limitations and lack
of discipline in working on a craft will somehow also apply to us.

Sorry. I don't know how to heal and get past stuff like that. My default has been to get super pissed
off (though never violent or aggressive) and just use it as fuel to prove them wrong. "I'll show you!!"
kind of thing.

Tell me I suck and I might agree, but I also know that I am not currently the last note in the song of
this life. I am going to write, play, sing some more---and it may still suck. But I am not stopping
because of what ANYONE else ever says to me about any of it--whether good or ill. I'm gonna keep
on keeping on, because I enjoy it, and it matters to me, and gosh darn it I am good enough.

 

[la szum]

There's definitely more in that vein along the way!

I was getting really bored churning out the basic song structure songs, like those two heavy ones and there was a song that came about 2 or 3 before that one you dig was written that were more abstract, just went with a flow instead of following any structure and that was a catalyst for others to follow. In turn, making me want to dump half the songs I've written for this album I've been working on.

I really appreciate the kind words, man. You've made my day twice in a row and it's given me a little spark to get back to it. I've been slacking in my studio for....too long.

Awesome! I was going to mention the aytypical song structure. I like that. I think I
mistakenly referred to the bridge as the chorus, or vice versa---because I could hear
that it was not "typical," and didn't really know which was which.

Again, really dig those tones and that atmosphere you created on that track. Not an
easy to thing to do.

 

[NewWorldMan]

I hope someday you take the leap of faith and decide to start working on this. The echoes of old familial discouragement and disparagement are the hardest to stop hearing....

I agree completely... the external critics (even when they don't intend to be harsh), get amplified internally, giving us many reasons to quit or not to try. If you've got the passion, follow it and enjoy the journey!

 

[NewWorldMan]

Can I ask what role volume plays in good singing, or doesn't play? Do you need to be powerful and
push a lot of air, or is more about being in control and pushing less?

I was listening to Producer Michael Beinhorn talking about working in the studio with Chris Cornell
and how he would literally blow up microphones with the power of his voice. Something I didn't even
know was possible.

Granted not everyone can be Chris Cornell, or even wants to sing like that, but I am curious about the
role between volume and tone. Kind of like guitar amps---do you need too turn up the human voice to
get the best mixture of tone and compression? Or am I way off base here?

Anyone? Feel free to chime in!

I spent a lot of time thinking I wasn't pushing enough air and I was exactly wrong. In my case, my mistake was thinking good support was a lot of air. Good support is steady, controlled flow. Often, I found it was my lack of soft palate lift and throat/face relaxation that messed me up - I felt I needed air to "fix" those broken elements. You can make a great tone with very little air. More air will be more loudness, and as the notes get higher you might need more air than on lower notes, but try to make a good tone with little air... there's some exercise for this... "mezza di voce?"

 

[PincoTech]

Ken Tamplin on YT…. Amazing

 

[BBN]

Can I ask what role volume plays in good singing, or doesn't play? Do you need to be powerful and
push a lot of air, or is more about being in control and pushing less?

I was listening to Producer Michael Beinhorn talking about working in the studio with Chris Cornell
and how he would literally blow up microphones with the power of his voice. Something I didn't even
know was possible.

Granted not everyone can be Chris Cornell, or even wants to sing like that, but I am curious about the
role between volume and tone. Kind of like guitar amps---do you need too turn up the human voice to
get the best mixture of tone and compression? Or am I way off base here?

Anyone? Feel free to chime in!

In the studio, all bets are off. I've blown my voice out just to get the right amount of raspy growl for a song I'm tracking, but I'd play it much safer live. So Cornell certainly could have blown his voice (and mics) in the studio, but you simply can't do that every night on the road.
The right amount of air for the right amount of volume. Nobody needs to sing loud, and pushing will do nothing other than fatigue your voice.
You underfeed (air) for high notes, and overfeed low notes.

Go to voicelesson.com and watch some of Baxter's free videos. He is outstanding. I actually just finished my zoom lesson 5 min ago.

The next time you are going for a high note, think 'down'....and relax like you don't care. You will find yourself hitting that note more accurately than if you push (and have anxiety). Baxter has proven that to me 100 times over.
I can't tell you how many times I'm at a gig, feeling fatigue in the third set, and I have to hit some notes that I know I'm about to go flat on.
I relax, take a breath and tell myself not to give a sh*t about the note. I'll sing it very lightly, and think 'down'. Always sing those notes better when I do that.
(it's similar to why you can sing stuff better in your car.....there is no pressure, you are relaxed, and you don't push because the song on the radio is already 'helping you' get that note)

 

[la szum]

Ken Tamplin on YT…. Amazing

I have seen him. I can only swallow that guy in small doses. Sorry.

 

[la szum]

In the studio, all bets are off. I've blown my voice out just to get the right amount of raspy growl for a song I'm tracking, but I'd play it much safer live. So Cornell certainly could have blown his voice (and mics) in the studio, but you simply can't do that every night on the road.
The right amount of air for the right amount of volume. Nobody needs to sing loud, and pushing will do nothing other than fatigue your voice.
You underfeed (air) for high notes, and overfeed low notes.

Go to voicelesson.com and watch some of Baxter's free videos. He is outstanding. I actually just finished my zoom lesson 5 min ago.

The next time you are going for a high note, think 'down'....and relax like you don't care. You will find yourself hitting that note more accurately than if you push (and have anxiety). Baxter has proven that to me 100 times over.
I can't tell you how many times I'm at a gig, feeling fatigue in the third set, and I have to hit some notes that I know I'm about to go flat on.
I relax, take a breath and tell myself not to give a sh*t about the note. I'll sing it very lightly, and think 'down'. Always sing those notes better when I do that.
(it's similar to why you can sing stuff better in your car.....there is no pressure, you are relaxed, and you don't push because the song on the radio is already 'helping you' get that note)

Cool! Thanks for the tip.

Someone else here mentioned going for things in the studio that they would
never attempt live for the same reasons.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Can I ask what role volume plays in good singing, or doesn't play? Do you need to be powerful and
push a lot of air, or is more about being in control and pushing less?

I was listening to Producer Michael Beinhorn talking about working in the studio with Chris Cornell
and how he would literally blow up microphones with the power of his voice. Something I didn't even
know was possible.

Granted not everyone can be Chris Cornell, or even wants to sing like that, but I am curious about the
role between volume and tone. Kind of like guitar amps---do you need too turn up the human voice to
get the best mixture of tone and compression? Or am I way off base here?

Anyone? Feel free to chime in!

It’s tricky to really call that one. But Chris Cornell is a good study in how to not handle your voice over a length of time. He had a LOT of issues and had to re-learn how to sing. I think him and I had of the same bad habits for a while. Listen to him in 92 and then listen to him in 2012; huge difference in his delivery and instead of going up in volume for the high notes, he learned how to bridge up through his head voice to do it calmly.

Your best friend as a vocalist is a great mic that picks up the tone of your voice and the signal chain behind it. I like to stand about 2 feet from the mic, crank the compression and basically get it so no matter how nuts I‘m going with head movement, everything is getting picked up. Depending on what I’m doing, I need to hear more music or more vocals. The heavier screaming stuff I need need the kick and snare, the singing stuff I really need the bass and a guitar part. Everyone song is different.

Just keep in mind, we plug our guitars into amps that make them ear splitting volumes, your voice deserves that same kind of treatment. Ideally, you should be able to sing anything regardless of the much, but to get it to truly shine on tape, learning the signal chain that works best for you is key.

Mine are generally an SSL Channel strip into an 1176 then what I want on there for some temporary verb/delay, just to track. I’ll tweak after that to make it work for the song, but the important thing is getting your vocal loud enough over the music where you can essentially float on top of it, unless you’re doing the metal thing and need to learn right into it.

 

[la szum]

I LOVE this stuff. 46:16 for the discussion about the vocals--including blowing up 5 Neumann U87s!!

 

[Dave Merrill]

Just got around to listening to this, so so so cool.
So much cool stuff on that song.
Rhythm guitar tones are forgin' HUGE.
Drums, bass, vocals, all of it.
Chris being tape op for his own lead vocals, by himself in the booth, no tech.
Then he throws out the first day's takes, does another day, nails it, and he's so tight that when Beinhorn wants to add a double, he just pulls up that first day and it's perfect.

Always dug the song, this made me appreciate it even more.
RIP Chris.

 

[la szum]

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Dave.

I have watched that entire thing 3 or 4 times since it was put out and
I will probably watch it again. Warren does a great job with that series
and has some really iconic Producers he breaks down songs with. He
was doing that stuff before Rick what's his name, too.

 

[la szum]

I didn't know that Chris tracked most of the rhythm guitars on the Soundgarden
albums either. I just assumed it was Thayil. Apparently not.

I wonder if we will ever here any of the "demos" of some of those iconic songs he
put out over the years.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Dave.

I have watched that entire thing 3 or 4 times since it was put out and
I will probably watch it again. Warren does a great job with that series
and has some really iconic Producers he breaks down songs with. He
was doing that stuff before Rick what's his name, too.

He's more in-depth on the tech side than Rick, maybe partly because the shows are longer.

I told my wife about it (she's a serious music buff but not really a musician), and played her the video of the song, which blew her away. She wanted to watch the show so I've seen it twice.

That sure was a great one!

 

[la szum]

That's awesome, Dave!

Kind of hard to beat having the guy who was actually in the room telling the stories, isn't it?

Another thing I didn't know was those massive rhythm tones are a Gretsch and a Freaking Jazzmaster!

 

[RevDrucifer]

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Dave.

I have watched that entire thing 3 or 4 times since it was put out and
I will probably watch it again. Warren does a great job with that series
and has some really iconic Producers he breaks down songs with. He
was doing that stuff before Rick what's his name, too.

I’m a HUGE AIC fan, so when he had Dave Jerden on, I was beyond stoked. When those isolated tracks starting popping up on YouTube, the AIC ones were always my favorites because you can hear Layne clearing his throat between lines, the breaths he’d take….there’s a lot to be learned in those isolated tracks, for sure.

I think Jerden is a little bit cooked at this point, but he’s still a wealth of knowledge and I’d LOVE to sit down with him and just hear stories sometime.

 

[RevDrucifer]

While we’ve predominantly been discussing “singing” in this thread, I figured I’d drop in a quick example of some of the more aggressive stuff I’m working on right now. I’ve had this song sitting around for 4 years and didn’t know what to do with the vocals, but last night as I was feeling a bit pissed off, I figured it out.



Shitty IPhone movie pointed at my monitors, but it gets the point across. It’s been a while since I was getting that aggressive with my voice, so I was feeling it a bit after the hour I spent on that…..but I’m ready to go in and bang the rest out today!