Any experiences with DIY adding a piezo bridge?

[shotgunn]

The Graphtech piezo needs the preamp to work.

Technically it doesn't 'need' it in order to work. I would be caught dead using piezos w/o a preamp to add some body to the signal. I've tried in an experiment and IMHO the results were less than satisfactory. Piezos are very high impedance and should be preamplified and buffered.

 

[boltrecords]

Without the preamp would the signal even be strong enough going Into the axe to get a decent volume without clipping the output? Seems like the signal would be so weak that you'd have to make level on those presets pretty damn high.

 

[shotgunn]

I've did my homework and read some articles about wiring Piezo bridges. There actually were some good schematics around from piezo bridge manufacturers.
Seems like I neither need tone controls, preamp nor any other electronics (they are nice to have, but I'm totally fine with changing the tone and volume through the Axe).

Now I just need to check how to get the Piezo bridge wire through the body to the output jack. Most people on youtube drilled a hole in the bridge humbucker seating and pushed the cable through there so they don't need to damage the wood top.

Anyways, I ordered a piezo bridge now and will install it as soon as it arrives.
Let's see how it turns out, lol.

What kind of guitar are we talking about here? Sorry if I missed it in the thread.

 

[shotgunn]

Where is a good place to get these parts in the UK?

Cheers.

If you can't find them over by you I can ship to you.

 

[MisterE]

If you want to use high gain amps with a Graphtech Ghost equipped guitar, I suggest you install the true bypass system.
The Graphtech amp ads quite a bit of noise to the mag pickups.
I installed this in my Brian Moore:
http://www.graphtech.com/fckeditor/userfiles/File/MagBypass14Bjack_rev2_072512.pdf

And on my sevenstring Larkin:
http://www.graphtech.com/fckeditor/userfiles/File/DualJackMagBypass_rev2_072512.pdf

Although it seems they have changed the schematic.
They added a cap on the auxiliary power connection.

I'm still looking for a schematic to combine a Sustainiac with a dual jack true bypass system.

 

[stratamania]

If you can't find them over by you I can ship to you.

Hi Shotgunn, that's a good gesture. Thomman in the post underneath mine is a large Germany based store has them and they ship all over Europe but if there any parts they dont have its good to know.

Cheers....

 

[shotgunn]

If you want to use high gain amps with a Graphtech Ghost equipped guitar, I suggest you install the true bypass system.
The Graphtech amp ads quite a bit of noise to the mag pickups.
I installed this in my Brian Moore:
http://www.graphtech.com/fckeditor/userfiles/File/MagBypass14Bjack_rev2_072512.pdf

And on my sevenstring Larkin:
http://www.graphtech.com/fckeditor/userfiles/File/DualJackMagBypass_rev2_072512.pdf

Although it seems they have changed the schematic.
They added a cap on the auxiliary power connection.

I'm still looking for a schematic to combine a Sustainiac with a dual jack true bypass system.

I can work something up for you.

I agree the mags MUST be TB'd. I'm very disappointed with the noise this system generates. For a long time I didn't notice it since always had a gate in my chain.

Two customers in the same week pointed it out to be back in December.

 

[MisterE]

I can work something up for you.

That would be great. Thanks

 

[Zwiebelchen]

What kind of guitar are we talking about here? Sorry if I missed it in the thread.

It's a Duesenberg Starplayer TV (semi hollowbody guitar, hence why Piezo makes even more sense), that I'm trying to upgrade. How about a passive electronics, is it possible without a battery? I don't like active components in my guitars.
From the I/O menu, the axe has 1 MOhm input impedance. Is that enough for the Piezo sound (without any form of onboard preamp) to not sound "thin"?

EDIT: There's also external piezo preamps available, like the Fishman G2. Does this work the same as an oboard-preamp? I was thinking about doing direct-wiring and then trying out this thing - and if I don't like it, I can always return it and retrofit an onboard preamp.

If you want to use high gain amps with a Graphtech Ghost equipped guitar, I suggest you install the true bypass system.
The Graphtech amp ads quite a bit of noise to the mag pickups.

I don't need the mixing of both signals directly in my guitar. I'm totally fine with two fully independant outputs on a stereo jack, so I don't have a need for the ghost system.

EDIT: Just removed the pickguard and it seems there's plenty of space in there to fit electronics in. I still don't want active electronics, but if there is no other way to make it sound good, it's always an option.

EDIT2: This guy used passive wiring and I think it sounds pretty good (except for the stupid chorus effect he added to it), so I'll definitely try out the passive thing before buying any fancy preamp stuff!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y0-c20ugxw

 

[stratcat]

From the I/O menu, the axe has 1 MOhm input impedance. Is that enough for the Piezo sound (without any form of onboard preamp) to not sound "thin"?Fishman Powerbridge Passive Installation, Tune-O-Matic version on a Washburn Electric - YouTube

Yes... well, almost! I actually run "passive" with my guitars and the AxeFx without too many problems. With 1MOhm impedance on the AxeFx, the bass frequencies start to roll off at about 100hz for the passive piezos - I don't mind this since I'd normally roll the guitars off below 100hz at the desk anyway. I have one guitar with an onboard preamp for the piezos and there's not a huge difference otherwise IMO.

(Running directly into a mixing desk is a different story - typically about 10k ohm on the line inputs which is no good for passive piezo pickups - this rolls off ALL of the bass and a fair bit of the midrange - and is why it sounds so thin on many desks).

This is with Graphtec pickups too which are reasonably full sounding to start with (for a piezo system that is!) however I have used other piezo systems which are perhaps a little thinner sounding and may not work as well. You usage (or ears) may also prefer not to lose the bass below 100hz.

Chris

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yes... well, almost! I actually run "passive" with my guitars and the AxeFx without too many problems. With 1MOhm impedance on the AxeFx, the bass frequencies start to roll off at about 100hz for the passive piezos - I don't mind this since I'd normally roll the guitars off below 100hz at the desk anyway. I have one guitar with an onboard preamp for the piezos and there's not a huge difference otherwise IMO.

(Running directly into a mixing desk is a different story - typically about 10k ohm on the line inputs which is no good for passive piezo pickups - this rolls off ALL of the bass and a fair bit of the midrange - and is why it sounds so thin on many desks).

This is with Graphtec pickups too which are reasonably full sounding to start with (for a piezo system that is!) however I have used other piezo systems which are perhaps a little thinner sounding and may not work as well. You usage (or ears) may also prefer not to lose the bass below 100hz.

Chris

I'm totally fine not having frequencies below 100Hz. In a band context, you don't want to be there anyway. I usually lowcut my sounds at a higher frequency.

Is the input impedance different for the rear inputs? Simply because I would want to use a Y cable to spread my stereo jack into the L and R jack of the rear input 1.

Also, from what I've read, using a stereo jack instead of two mono jacks on the guitar output has the disadvantage of having the shared ground "cross talk" between the magnetic and piezo pickups that matters when playing high-gain.
Did you have any problems with that using passive piezo? If so, would a volume pot for the piezo fix it?
I'm not that good with the physics behind electric circuits, but from my understand, as soon as the volume of the piezo pickup is fully engaged, the ground should have almost no signal passing through, right? So it should only matter if I have on-board mixing of the signal?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Finished this project now and it turned out great.

a 1MOhm volume pot is taped on the insides of the hardware as a trim control.
Other than that it's straight connection to ring of a TRS jack.

Sounds great with a little bit of EQ'ing!

To avoid any permanent changes to the guitar (didn't want to hurt the resell value), I avoided drilling a hole below the bridge to put the wire through and instead filed out a small mouse hole in the humbucker pickup ring.
Then put some black isolation around the wire for the looks.

I can only encourage everyone who thinks about adding a piezo bridge to try this as a DIY job. It turned out to be much easier than expected. Some basic soldering and that's it. Replacing the output jack was a piece of cake.

 

[boltrecords]

Looks great. Post a clip of it and some more pics when you get a chance. I was going to go the route of running mine through the pickup ring but in the end my OCD wouldnt let me. Just seeing that wire would have driven me crazy. Lol.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Looks great. Post a clip of it and some more pics when you get a chance. I was going to go the route of running mine through the pickup ring but in the end my OCD wouldnt let me. Just seeing that wire would have driven me crazy. Lol.

Sure thing. I will post a clip as soon as I get my hands back on my fender acoustic for tonematching.

About the pickup ring routing:
It's definitely the easiest way to do, as it requires no drilling at all. If your guitar is black or white, it's definitely the way to go.
The thing with drilling is, that you can not drill in a 90° angle and you need to go sure that both holes properly meet up inside the body.
Or you drill a skewed hole directly under the bridge to reach the cavity below the pickguard with just one hole. But I was afraid that this could damage the finish and lacquer so I went for the ring solution. Fiddling the wire through a small hole can also be a test of patience.

 

[boltrecords]

Sure thing. I will post a clip as soon as I get my hands back on my fender acoustic for tonematching.

About the pickup ring routing:
It's definitely the easiest way to do, as it requires no drilling at all. If your guitar is black or white, it's definitely the way to go.
The thing with drilling is, that you can not drill in a 90° angle and you need to go sure that both holes properly meet up inside the body.
Or you drill a skewed hole directly under the bridge to reach the cavity below the pickguard with just one hole. But I was afraid that this could damage the finish and lacquer so I went for the ring solution. Fiddling the wire through a small hole can also be a test of patience.

Yeah mine definitely wasnt an easy job. I'm glad Shotgunn was able to work his magic on mine. I was planning on adding a piezo for years but never pulled the trigger until I new it would be done the way I wanted and would function the way wanted.