Any (early) Rush lovers with patches willing to share?

Here's an updated version of the Rush '77 patch. I think I've got most of the issues worked out. I've tuned the MXR distortion+, adjusted the chorus for the wild and wide sound of the Roland Space Chorus, added a tape delay with ducking, and a reverb.
As always, the cabs are my own special recipe of the Redwire HiWatt SE4123-Fanes IR's which is:
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-R121-Cap-0_5in.wav,.4522
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-KM84-CapEdge-0_5in.wav,.4521
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.0955
[attachment=0:34gy4g48]Rush 77A.syx[/attachment:34gy4g48]
It has girth to it that I want, but it might be a little too processed sounding. I might want to trim some of that back in the future. I used Freewill, Hemispheres, The Trees, and Circumstances as sort of the basis. If your guitar pick ups are on the muddy side, you might want to turn the dirty channel amplifier down a couple of dB.
 

Attachments

  • Rush 77A.syx
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I thought my last attempt at the Alex Lifeson HiWatt sound was too processed sounding, so I rethought it a bit, enhanced it with some of the stuff I've learned in the last year, and came up with something more organic sounding. I think I'm pretty close with this one. The only problem is that it is using an enormous amount of memory on the Ultra. So, I have attached a simpler version for Standard users.
The layout kind of looks like this:
Rush77H.jpg

[attachment=1:29o59jsm]Rush 77H.syx[/attachment:29o59jsm][attachment=0:29o59jsm]Rush 77H Simplified.syx[/attachment:29o59jsm]
As always, the cabs are my own special recipe of the Redwire HiWatt SE4123-Fanes IR's which is:
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-R121-Cap-0_5in.wav,.4522
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-KM84-CapEdge-0_5in.wav,.4521
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.0955

It also sounds pretty cool when you replace the chorus with a rotary speaker.
 

Attachments

  • Rush 77H.syx
    2 KB · Views: 104
  • Rush 77H Simplified.syx
    2 KB · Views: 89
Dancing Frog said:
I thought my last attempt at the Alex Lifeson HiWatt sound was too processed sounding, so I rethought it a bit, enhanced it with some of the stuff I've learned in the last year, and came up with something more organic sounding. I think I'm pretty close with this one. The only problem is that it is using an enormous amount of memory on the Ultra. So, I have attached a simpler version for Standard users.
The layout kind of looks like this:
Rush77H.jpg


It also sounds pretty cool when you replace the chorus with a rotary speaker.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Don't you just love it when you see something like this. How time consuming and expensive would this be to achieve using actual hardware? Truly brothers we are blessed :D
 
didn't Alex start using Galien krueger amps for Permanent Waves?i remember something about Lado guitars also.was a long time ago,could be wrong.
 
Thanks a ton for posting this; can't wait to try it out.

Have you come up with anything that emulates his Snakes and Arrows live sound?

KF
 
RDeraz said:
didn't Alex start using Galien krueger amps for Permanent Waves?i remember something about Lado guitars also.was a long time ago,could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the Lado guitars, but he started using the Gallen Krueger 250ML's during Power Windows until Counterparts when he switched back to Marshalls. He was using HiWatt DR103's from "Farewell to Kings" through "Permanent Waves." From "Moving Pictures" through "Grace Under Pressure," he was using HiWatts with Marshall 4140 Combos.

kfliegner said:
Thanks a ton for posting this; can't wait to try it out.

Have you come up with anything that emulates his Snakes and Arrows live sound?

KF
Click to expand...
I hope you enjoy it. I haven't yet gotten to "Snakes and Arrows," because I have to invent something for the Hughes and Kettner Triamp MkII's and Switchblades. Lucky for me, I have a reference, because I have half the compliment of the "Rush in Rio" set up, i.e. a Triamp Mk II ALSE and a zenTera. I also have the wiring schematics for a Triamp MkI and some of the circuits are recognizable as being amps that are already modeled on the Axe-FX. The big issue is going to be getting around the Hughes and Kettner tone-stack where the treble control is centered more in the presence frequency range.

yyz67 said:
Hi Dancing Frog -

Could you possibly post some sound clips?

thanks-
Click to expand...
Working on it. It depends on whether I get the time. I'm programming some drum and bass tracks right now, so I can get a final idea of where it sits in the mix.
 
Can't resist a good Rush thread :)

Some thoughts on the patch strictly from an architectural standpoint. Just noticed, you're using the word "wide" but this is a mono patch. You've got phase reversing / mono-LFO chorus going into a cab which sums to mono, then partially panned cabs and stereo reverb going into a drive pedal which sums to mono again. That is probably creating some strangeness. Might be good strangeness... not sure. Taking out that 2nd drive pedal will get you back in stereo (if that's what you want).

Also, since the first amp is feeding the CHO 100%, you can also save some DSP by replacing the mixer with a volume.

Likewise, the 2nd mixer can go, since you are not letting any of input 3 in.

This saves enough DSP to let you switch to two HIRES MONO cabs (or even dual stereo if you wanted.)

Something like this...

rush77.jpg


What guitar are you playing through this?
 
Matman said:
Can't resist a good Rush thread :)

Some thoughts on the patch strictly from an architectural standpoint. Just noticed, you're using the word "wide" but this is a mono patch. You've got phase reversing / mono-LFO chorus going into a cab which sums to mono, then partially panned cabs and stereo reverb going into a drive pedal which sums to mono again. That is probably creating some strangeness. Might be good strangeness... not sure. Taking out that 2nd drive pedal will get you back in stereo (if that's what you want).

Also, since the first amp is feeding the CHO 100%, you can also save some DSP by replacing the mixer with a volume.

Likewise, the 2nd mixer can go, since you are not letting any of input 3 in.

This saves enough DSP to let you switch to two HIRES MONO cabs (or even dual stereo if you wanted.)

Something like this...

rush77.jpg


What guitar are you playing through this?
Click to expand...
You have some good points. I've been testing them on the hardware since I got home tonight.

Basically, these patches should be regarded as a "work in progress." A wide chorus sound was what I thought I was aiming for at the beginning of this journey. You are right that this isn't stereo, earlier patches were. The big stereo chorus sound was just not the way to go. When I think Lifeson, I think big chorus, but that really isn't it at all. The Rush of this period was more of an organic sound. The chorus is more of a seasoning than an ingredient. So in later patches I've backed off quite a bit and was aiming for a slight shimmer in the highs which is the reason that I've let the chorus for the most part phase cancel in the cabs. But because it's not 100% mono, there is still some warble in the highs and it gives a thinner sound. Also for the record, the Dimension D wave shape should be a trapezoid.

The tape distortion at the end was an oversight. I've messing around with some of Scott Peterson's ideas lately. That was the state of where I was at. I hadn't realized it was still there. Removing it, you lose some of the warmth in return for dimensionality. When I l knock that out, I need to back off the reverb and delay quite a bit.

As far as the mixers go, I tried the "adjust the volume of each amp route," and I just wasn't getting fine enough control over the inputs to the chorus and the outputs of all three signal paths. I'm still messing around with a 5-10% clean amp bypass in some cases, so I am keeping them around for max flexibility for the moment. As far as CPU loads, each one is about 1% which is small when compared to 8% that the cab blocks take. But you're right, you can kill both mixers and put a volume in the clean bypass.

I am primarily playing a PRS HB1 with 1957/2008 pick ups which is the closest guitar I have to the ES-355. The patch is tuned for that guitar, but I have also have tested others through it, e.g. a PRS 513 Maple, a PRS 513, an SC245 with 1957/2008's, and a '69 Strat Relic. Through my FBT Verve 12ma's this patch sounded pretty close, but I am working on getting it to record properly. To that end, I spent Sunday sequencing the drums, bass, and synth parts to Freewill. I recorded a couple of guitar tracks which gave me ideas for new directions to go. Mainly, back to a guitar teacher. ;)
 
I took some of Matt's suggestions and crafted some new patches. Right now I'm playing with two different versions. Version L is the revison of the previous one by removing the tape distortion, adding in an extra HiRes mono cab, and changing the chorus to trapezoid. Version P is version L with the eq modified to match the same PSD shape as the original recording by using spectral analysis. I seem to prefer L to P for certain situations and vice versa. I've been use some rough mixes of Freewill to correlate the sounds.
[attachment=1:11266unn]Rush 77L.syx[/attachment:11266unn]
 

Attachments

  • Rush 77L.syx
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  • Rush 77P.syx
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Great thread - thanks so much for sharing these patches. I'm loving the simplified version (Standard owner), but with the chorus mix just dialled back a little (to 20%). Also, by removing one of the cabs, I'm able to use the 77L and 77P patches too, which both also sound really good. A/B-ing these 3 patches with my LoneStar Strat using the bridge HB, it's hard to choose my favourite, but I think the 77P *just* shades it. Great stuff.
 
jonPhillips said:
Great thread - thanks so much for sharing these patches. I'm loving the simplified version (Standard owner), but with the chorus mix just dialled back a little (to 20%). Also, by removing one of the cabs, I'm able to use the 77L and 77P patches too, which both also sound really good. A/B-ing these 3 patches with my LoneStar Strat using the bridge HB, it's hard to choose my favourite, but I think the 77P *just* shades it. Great stuff.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. Less is definitely more on chorus. For the test recordings, I recorded three guitar tracks with only one of the tracks having the delay on. I found that 77P layered is probably the best match to date for "Freewill," but I like the slightly more wild nature of 77L too.

Lately, I've been trying a new recipe for the cabs based on what Scott Peterson has been up to in pursuit of the amp in the room feel.
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-SM57-CapEdgeOffAxis-2in.wav,0.45
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-KM84-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.45
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.05
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-RoomL.wav,0.025
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-RoomR.wav,0.025

I found the SM57 gives a more familiar shape to the highs, but it's way too treble centered for it to be used alone as the primary mic. I found myself dialing the treble in the amps back into an area where the treble is not very controllable using the "passive" tonestack, so I had to add back in the KM84's to give the amp some more body and pull back on the highs. I like how the TC30's make the amps breathe, but I am not quite completely sold on the mix yet.
 
FWIW, this is the mix I already have loaded into one of my user slots and it works well with your patches:

HiwattSE4123-Fanes-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

The SM57 and the R121 are a good combo for this speaker, whilst the TC30 allows a little air. Might be worth a try?
 
jonPhillips said:
FWIW, this is the mix I already have loaded into one of my user slots and it works well with your patches:

HiwattSE4123-Fanes-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

The SM57 and the R121 are a good combo for this speaker, whilst the TC30 allows a little air. Might be worth a try?
Click to expand...
Definitely, I'll put it up on the box this weekend and give it a spin.
 
jonPhillips said:
FWIW, this is the mix I already have loaded into one of my user slots and it works well with your patches:

HiwattSE4123-Fanes-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
HiwattSE4123-Fanes-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

The SM57 and the R121 are a good combo for this speaker, whilst the TC30 allows a little air. Might be worth a try?
Click to expand...
Tried it. That's a winner. It takes 77P the rest of the way there. Thanks.
 
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