Any advice on relative levels?

[clarky]

You can get in the ballpark simpler than I showed in the video linked above. Just hook up the output of your Axe-FX II to a mixer with a meter bridge. I put a piece of tape to mark my 'start' tone level, normally your CLEANEST tone. I shoot to have this work when the output knob on the Axe-FX at noon for direct-to-FOH adjustability maximization.

I then run through each tone and get them close - without listening at all. THEN I check with the db meter (at least 90db+) and judge by ear also.

Assuming you have chosen your cab IR's well, you'd be surprised how fast this can make the process and how accurate it can be.

Scott - a little question..
as you're using an initial visual check first for level balancing, wouldn't you find that presets with a significantly stronger low end would come up quieter than those that are more mid's strong??
because I'd have expected presets with strong lows to move the meter more than those that are more gentle with the lows

 

[Scott Peterson]

Scott - a little question..
as you're using an initial visual check first for level balancing, wouldn't you find that presets with a significantly stronger low end would come up quieter than those that are more mid's strong??
because I'd have expected presets with strong lows to move the meter more than those that are more gentle with the lows

Thanks for asking. The choice of IR in the cab block is the most important aspect hand-in-hand with dialing the amp for a proper timbre balance. In that regard, no matter what tone I go for the 'general' timbre balance in regard to frequency spectrum has to be relatively 'even' if that makes sense. It's important when running direct-to-FOH/FRFR to both be aware of and dial your tones with that in mind. So - short answer - I don't have super bass heavy tones vs. bright stinging tones. Practical example, my Fender Twin is fat and warm, but NOT flubby or muddy clean or pushed.... my Recto Red Modern (my personal 'heaviest' tone) isn't super bassy. That way, all my presets will have the same 'fit' in any given mix/context and the relative volumes of each are far more even across the board.

Running direct-to-FOH/FRFR requires, IMHO, you to not only be aware of that, it makes it mandatory in order to make the paradigm work for FOH.

Hope that helps explain it better. All IMHO.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[clarky]

ahhh gotchya....
so the fact that your tones have - in general terms - a reasonably consistent EQ characterstic allows for the visual check to provide consistent results across all your presets.. and so provide a nice solid starting point..

makes total sense..

and I totally agree that the amp / cab combination is the killer 'thing' to nail in the Axe
it's the difference between fail.. sounding ok... or the sort of pure joy that'll launch you into tonal utopia..

 

[Rex]

For myself, I don't strive for tonal similarity between presets so much as a lack of tonal "warts." For example, I have a couple of go-to clean sounds: a Super Verb that's a bit agressive and strident, and a Shiver Clean that's warm and round. Quite different tonally, but neither one has flubby bass or ice-picky highs, and they both sit well in a given mix (more or less, because mixes themselves have different "holes" in the spectrum where you can fit a guitar).

 

[clarky]

I go about this really differently...

I have three basic tones.. clean, riff and solo.. and either riff or clean will coexist with solo in the same preset
all of my presets are variants of either riff / solo or clean / solo
the levels for 'riff mode' 'riff preset: solo mode' [and the same for the clean preset] are set via a GEQ
riff mode = GEQ1, solo mode = GEQ2
these GEQ's are global linked

all I have to do is to nail the difference between riffing and soloing for one Riff / Solo preset and all of the others get fixed with it
and I do the same with the Clean / Solo preset..

fast... easy... reliable

 

[Scott Peterson]

For myself, I don't strive for tonal similarity between presets so much as a lack of tonal "warts." For example, I have a couple of go-to clean sounds: a Super Verb that's a bit agressive and strident, and a Shiver Clean that's warm and round. Quite different tonally, but neither one has flubby bass or ice-picky highs, and they both sit well in a given mix (more or less, because mixes themselves have different "holes" in the spectrum where you can fit a guitar).

I need to clarify what I posted if the preception is that my presets might all sound the same; they don't. Essentially I rely on the cabinet IR being correct for the amp model and that 'clarifies' it in the mix. Own Hammer is *just* about to drop 30 new speaker IR's all mixed to professional standards (as in mic choice, mic techniqes, etc) and I assure you - none of my different presets sound alike (though obviously, my Marshall type tones sound like Marshalls). One thing I like so much is that my Marshall tones (and I love them) all have their own character. The spectral mix though is appropriate and there isn't any flabbby bottom or screechy highs no matter what amp/cab I am using across the range of my presets.

I go about this really differently...

I have three basic tones.. clean, riff and solo.. and either riff or clean will coexist with solo in the same preset
all of my presets are variants of either riff / solo or clean / solo
the levels for 'riff mode' 'riff preset: solo mode' [and the same for the clean preset] are set via a GEQ
riff mode = GEQ1, solo mode = GEQ2
these GEQ's are global linked

all I have to do is to nail the difference between riffing and soloing for one Riff / Solo preset and all of the others get fixed with it
and I do the same with the Clean / Solo preset..

fast... easy... reliable

That's a cool approach. For solos, I just use scenes and with cleaner tones set the output level at +4db and for heavier tones I set the output levels for +6db. I use various levels of a Drive pedal or a custom PEQ (my own curve, I'd guess much like your GEQ) that I have attached to an expression pedal to goose the front of the amp.

 

[shasha]

I'm a big proponent of the CC35/36 INC/DEC thing. It's easy to setup and within seconds your levels are right. You can use meters and stuff to get close, but to be honest the actual level is best for recording. Clean tones, dirty tones, reverb, whatever is going to impact how it cuts through any given setting. And to determine how well it cuts through or sits in a mix is always going to end up being the ear test. It doesn't matter how good the levels are on the meter if it's too loud or too quiet. Using the INC/DEC it's simple, it's fast and it requires no digging into the menu and saving your patches; it's all automatic and you can do it while you are playing.

I'm relatively anal about levels but I haven't found anything that is faster or gives more consistent results to date.

 

[clarky]

one thing Scott...
those GEQ's are at the end of the grid [not the front] so they are all about final EQ and level for each 'tone type' that the preset delivers..

the beauty of this is that I only have to nail the relative levels between the rhythm [riff or clean depending upon the preset] and the soloing tone
and also the relative level between the clean/solo preset and the riff/solo preset..

this means I have 4 global GEQ's
GEQ1 riff, GEQ2 solo in riff/solo preset, GEQ1 clean and GEQ2 solo in clean/solo preset

given that the other 8 of my 10 presets are all derived from either riff/solo or clean/solo, I only have to sort out riff/solo1 and clean/solo1 and all the others fall into line..

I also link the amps [the pair in the riff/solo and the pair in the clean/solo presets]
this was especially useful when Cliff introduced the default MV settings when the amp is reset cos this destroyed my presets..
that said.. I reloaded a preset of each type from my archive, noted the MV settings for my 4 amps..
and then set them back to how they were in clean/solo1 and riff/solo1..
my presets were back up and running, and again the remaining 8 presets all fell back into line...

globals are a total godsend..

 

[Rex]

I need to clarify what I posted if the preception is that my presets might all sound the same; they don't.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Home Skillet]

Will the CC35/36 INC/DEC solution save the output level on all scenes?

 

[myWolfgangShreds]

Use the CC35 & 36 method :encouragement:

Set up two buttons on the MFC one to send CC35 and the other to send CC36. 35 knocks the level down by 1db, 36 knocks it up 1 db and your changes are automatically saved. Such a cool feature

Just be aware that you don't end up just turning every patch up all the time because you'll soon run into output clipping issues. You may need to bring the louder ones down as opposed to bringing the quieter ones up and then increase the power amp / mixing desk level accordingly

I've been trying to figure this out since I bought the axe last year!!!

{edit} but... as I read on... I wish you can set CCs to work with AMP BLOCK volume not slider volume.

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

I've been trying to figure this out since I bought the axe last year!!!

{edit} but... as I read on... I wish you can set CCs to work with AMP BLOCK volume not slider volume.

Here's a further suggestion then...

Use the CC35 & 36 method at rehearsal / gig so that you're happy with the relative levels. Afterwards, take a look at how much the slider has been cut or boosted and then manually apply those same adjustments to the Amp Level (not Amp Master Volume) whilst resetting the Output slider back to zero again - I bet it gets you close :encouragement: (and maintains consistency)

Don't forget to then save from front panel too

 

[clarky]

I've been trying to figure this out since I bought the axe last year!!!

{edit} but... as I read on... I wish you can set CCs to work with AMP BLOCK volume not slider volume.

don't know if this helps, but you can use a pair of scenes to alter the amp block volume between a lower and a higher setting..
better still though, I think you can use a pair of scenes to alter the level of the preset in the grid output
this will raise / lower the level of the entire preset rather than a single element within it, and therefore maintain the relative levels between the various fx blocks..

maybe a better option would be to plave a vol block at the end of the grid and assign a modifier to it so you can cotrol the level change from an expression pedal.. note that the min level on the XP does not have to be 0 and the max level does not have to be flat out..
give yourself about 10dB of range from min to max and 'cock' the XP to centre when you sound check..
then mid-gig you'd have + / - 5dB available to you

personally.. I don't like any of these solutions..
I just like to take the time to nail the relative levels
I'll start by getting them pretty close at home [playing along with the band's songs]..
then fine tune them at gig levels in a rehearsal studio [playing along to the band's songs with an iPod through the PA]
and then zero in on the final settings [which should be seriously close by now] in a band rehearsal

then I show up at a gig.. turn up so my riffing tone balances nice with the drums and bass..
and from then on I know that everything else works.. and so I never touch it again..

 

[NiceChris]

I find it important to keep my level of relatives low, so that they do not come around and bother me while I'm trying to practice. It also saves me money in presents too.

:Just Kidding: