An evening with Redwirez

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HERE YOU CAN FIND TIPS ON HOW TO GET GOOD TONES IMO. IN NO WAY ARE THESE RULES WHICH YOU SHOULD OBEY BUT IF YOU LIKE MY TONES, GO AHEAD AND LEARN FROM THE APPRENTICE! THESE TIPS WON'T GIVE YOU TALENT... SORRY.

I did this experiment with the Mesa cab.

I'm on vacation right now and when my girlfriend came home from work she decided that it's cleaning day. So... I escaped it by spending this evening trying out different IRs until I found what I was looking for and I did. ;) (Yes, I'm a lucky guy and she's hot too! :lol: )

Now first of all I want to explain what I was looking for. I hate to hurt people's ears (like what I did with the cali cab) so what I'm looking for is a super creamy yet clear and cutting IR. The cone position sure is creamy but it's loose and I want tightness so I went through all the "CapEdge 0in" positions and the mics with the least sizzle fizzle were these three: U87, L47 and C414. I don't take distance with mics. Not in real life... not in this digital cyberworld either. Why? Distance adds that phaserish chorusing weird tone that your ears must get used to. I hate that and you can't hear it in a mix anyways so why should we have it there? When I'm looking for a good mic position in real life I'm looking for a balanced place where there's no sizzle.

The next thing I'm looking for is a cab that's as flat as possible. I noticed that these three combined together had the most cuttage and the super IR that came from those three ended up being really flat in the low register. Now for me an IR is flat if it peaks flat. A good IR has way less highs than lows and mids. Check your favorite guitar tone and I promise you there are at least 5dB less treble than bass. This is a stupid generalization but you get the point. The IR peaks flat. (when I pick hard it has the same amount of lows mids and highs)

Another thing I've had a lot of problems with is the low end. I've mic'ed real cabs for about four years before I got the Axe-Fx and I've never had as much low end as the stock IRs and Redwirez have in the Axe-Fx. When I record stuff I always use a lowcut but I wanted to take care of this in the Axe-Fx so my tones work live too. So I ended up doing the lowcut with the Global EQ.
63hz = -12dB
125hz = -5dB
and this actually works perfectly with the stock cabs too if you use the NONE mic option like I do. Why do this? Why not roll down the bass in the amp block? Because the amp block effects the overall feel and tone. More bass leads to smoother and easier playing. F.ex. a real Recto is easy as hell to play with if you crank the bass. (Tremonti does it) If you don't have this lowcut in the global eq you can't do it without clipping. Same goes for all those amps with depth in them. FAS Modern and Das Metall can finally be played without clipping! Hooray!

So what did we learn. Good IRs:
MesaRectifierV30s-U87-CapEdge-0in
MesaRectifierV30s-L47-CapEdge-0in
MesaRectifierV30s-C414-CapEdge-0in

Use them for an unsizzly but clear and cutting tone. Combine them. Axe-Fx passes unnecessary low frequencies which you can cut with the global eq.

I also found my second favorite Redwirez cab: the Marshall1960B-V30s. Really nice and flat!
 
Ah you guys always need a clip: http://www.mediafire.com/?e1qy2hki3abf9dj <--- sense the seriousness in the clip

The clip is the same IR and clean is Shiva and distortion is Recto New. I used my brightest guitar on this one, the Music Man JP6.

No need for conversation is really needed. I just think I found a really versatile IR that I plan to use on just about everything.
 
Usually, when I mic my 1960AV with Vintage 30's i notice a loss of mids, also using the stock IR's it's the same.

To me, the best compromise is using the 4x12 Recto 1 without mic or, better, with the 67 cond.


Why? Maybe it's the room or the interferences in soundwaves from the four speakers, I don't know.
 
Hi Clark,

I like your clip - sounds great!
Which IR did you finally use for the clip (U87, L47 or C414)?

Cheers
:)
 
It's all three mics together. However I'm always trying to find the perfect cab and I think I found it yesterday. :lol: There's one song on my favorite record that has a tone that's the goal tone that I'm going for. Yesterday I started A/B'ing my favorite IRs with their tone and I tried to match the cabs by playing the same riffs etc. Long story short I found IT!

It's just a single IR from Redwirez that I've used before. It's really simple and I get my tone by cutting the low end with global EQ. Now... I can rest.

It's very similar to this IR that I made here but it has less phasing. Although Redwirez impulses are timed to match each other I get this tiny phase when mixing multiple IRs together in my DAW.

I already recorded a song using that IR so it'll be here soon.
 
Clark Kent said:
It's all three mics together. However I'm always trying to find the perfect cab and I think I found it yesterday. :lol: There's one song on my favorite record that has a tone that's the goal tone that I'm going for. Yesterday I started A/B'ing my favorite IRs with their tone and I tried to match the cabs by playing the same riffs etc. Long story short I found IT!

It's just a single IR from Redwirez that I've used before. It's really simple and I get my tone by cutting the low end with global EQ. Now... I can rest.

It's very similar to this IR that I made here but it has less phasing. Although Redwirez impulses are timed to match each other I get this tiny phase when mixing multiple IRs together in my DAW.

I already recorded a song using that IR so it'll be here soon.
Click to expand...

So what's the single IR?
 
Ha... it's a boring choice. The Mesa SM57 Cone 0in. It's so good that I don't EQ/compress or do any post processing to it. I check back that the master's compression/EQ doesn't affect the tone. It works great with all of my guitars.

SIDE NOTE: There's too much low end in that IR (like every IR IMO) so cut the lows. I've got the 63 all the way down in the global eq. 125hz at -6dB and 250hz at -10dB. Other than that it's flat.
 
tonygtr said:
I would suggest mixing the capedge and cone IRs instead of cutting bass.
Click to expand...

No man, that's where I started too but those capedge IRs are unusable IMO. I've been mixing/mastering stuff for years now and I promise you there's not a single session where the guitars didn't have lowcut. I hate ego guitarists who want their low end and then you can't hear the bass player.

Sorry Tony but I found what I was searching for. :) I've tried just about every capedge position on all of my Redwirez cabs and they are all unusably fizzy to me. A few condensers sounded smoother at capedge like the ones I mentioned but this IR kicks their butts. And still the capedge position needs lowcut and after that they just sound like an old radio to me.

Guitar is a middle instrument. I measure things by ear. I play my tones loud with my studio monitors and if it hurts my ears then it has too much highs. Then I listen to it with low volume and if I can't hear the mids then I need lowcut.

The best way to demonstrate this would be to test IRs with a very high lowcut. Like 400hz high. Then you only hear the high end...
 
Clark Kent said:
tonygtr said:
I would suggest mixing the capedge and cone IRs instead of cutting bass.
Click to expand...

No man, that's where I started too but those capedge IRs are unusable IMO. I've been mixing/mastering stuff for years now and I promise you there's not a single session where the guitars didn't have lowcut. I hate ego guitarists who want their low end and then you can't hear the bass player.

Sorry Tony but I found what I was searching for. :) I've tried just about every capedge position on all of my Redwirez cabs and they are all unusably fizzy to me. A few condensers sounded smoother at capedge like the ones I mentioned but this IR kicks their butts. And still the capedge position needs lowcut and after that they just sound like an old radio to me.

Guitar is a middle instrument. I measure things by ear. I play my tones loud with my studio monitors and if it hurts my ears then it has too much highs. Then I listen to it with low volume and if I can't hear the mids then I need lowcut.

The best way to demonstrate this would be to test IRs with a very high lowcut. Like 400hz high. Then you only hear the high end...
Click to expand...

I balance all my IRs so they have the same level of higs and lows, and depending on the cab, that might be cone edge, like some of the Fenders, and cap, like the Bogner V30. Saying one position works for all speaker (not saying you do), is a lie.

I don't know why you are using condensor mics if you don't like alot of low end? But then again, I think the Royer R121 sounds like ass on guitar :mrgreen: At least Mike Landau thinks that too, so I'm not totally crazy.
 
I know what your saying about guitarist that like it super heavy and deep, but yet it never works that well in the mix. This really drives me nuts cause i want my sound to work good in the mix, but yet i also want it to sound good on my own as well, which usually means low and heavy. I also do like it nice and smooth creamy and with some nice mids as well cause the cut through the mix better. Finding a good compromise is so difficult. I just order a dimarzio crunchlabs for my universe, hoping it will cut some of the low end, and give me some better tones with my ibenez universe. I figured since i played downtuned a whole step anyways i dont need the pickup giving me added bass that the blaze pickups give to much of. Hopefully they will sound good with the wood on that guitar.
 
tonygtr said:
I balance all my IRs so they have the same level of higs and lows, and depending on the cab, that might be cone edge, like some of the Fenders, and cap, like the Bogner V30. Saying one position works for all speaker (not saying you do), is a lie.

I don't know why you are using condensor mics if you don't like alot of low end? But then again, I think the Royer R121 sounds like ass on guitar :mrgreen: At least Mike Landau thinks that too, so I'm not totally crazy.
Click to expand...

One position won't work for all speakers. Like f.ex. the Uberkab is too fizzy and bassy no matter what mic I use. The Marshall V30 cab was so sharp sounding that even the coneedge position had too much fizz. These are all V30 cabs.

I was using condensor mics because they had less fizz and a smooth creamy high end. Then I cut the low end etc. etc. and the end result was an out of phase version of the SM57 Cone 0in. :D

I'm just looking for that one cab that is best overall and I found it. :) I'm not searching for tips here. Just saying that I scanned through just about all of the Redwirez IRs and found something that works best for me. Those capedge mics didn't sound any better than stock cabs IMO. I'd rather use the stock Recto 2.
 
torchlord said:
I know what your saying about guitarist that like it super heavy and deep, but yet it never works that well in the mix. This really drives me nuts cause i want my sound to work good in the mix, but yet i also want it to sound good on my own as well, which usually means low and heavy. I also do like it nice and smooth creamy and with some nice mids as well cause the cut through the mix better. Finding a good compromise is so difficult. I just order a dimarzio crunchlabs for my universe, hoping it will cut some of the low end, and give me some better tones with my ibenez universe. I figured since i played downtuned a whole step anyways i dont need the pickup giving me added bass that the blaze pickups give to much of. Hopefully they will sound good with the wood on that guitar.
Click to expand...

Why do we want low end? To make things sound massive. Where do we need it? Nothing below 125hz is needed for guitar. And a good place to scoop is 250hz. This way you can have more of 125hz and that guitar low end can cut through.... but it won't sound as good as a bass doing that frequency.

I've got a JP6 with the crunch lab + liquifire and I'm not pleased with the crunch lab. It's very bright sounding no matter which way I turn it. I've got one of those custom petrucci pickups from the earlier JPs in one of my guitars and it sounds way better that the crunch lab. One bad thing about the crunch lab is that it doesn't have dynamics. It sounds like an EMG pickup. I loved the D-Sonic that I had before the crunch lab. I sure hope you like that pickup.
 
Hey Clark, thanks for the IR tips and the global eq tip on cutting the lowend @63hz. Makes total sense, it's funny, I would always use the PEQ to cut the lows around 60hz but never gave much thought to the global EQ.
On the 250hz, How much db are you cutting there? I'm sure it varies from guitar used to amp/cab model as well,but just curious where you normally set it at.
 
Axisman5150 said:
Hey Clark, thanks for the IR tips and the global eq tip on cutting the lowend @63hz. Makes total sense, it's funny, I would always use the PEQ to cut the lows around 60hz but never gave much thought to the global EQ.
On the 250hz, How much db are you cutting there? I'm sure it varies from guitar used to amp/cab model as well,but just curious where you normally set it at.
Click to expand...

It depends on a lot of things but with this IR I've got 250hz at -10dB and 125hz at -6dB. This has just the right amount of low end for a mix. 63hz is no guitar frequency and it doesn't seem to cut 125hz at all so why not have it off.
 
Really good cab choices, Clark.
I tried them and they sound really great in my setup.
I like meaty solo sounds and agree on most cab-IRs being too fizzy. Matter of taste I guess.
Thanks for making the thread, got me a step closer to THAT sound in my head!
 
This may be a bonehead question but how do you blend multiple mic positions together? I have a couple of Redwirez IRs, but have only used Axe Edit to load them (one at a time) into my Axe. I am pretty new to all of this so I would really appreciate your help!
 
sgplayer76 said:
This may be a bonehead question but how do you blend multiple mic positions together? I have a couple of Redwirez IRs, but have only used Axe Edit to load them (one at a time) into my Axe. I am pretty new to all of this so I would really appreciate your help!
Click to expand...

Do you have a DAW? Like Cubase, Pro Tools or Reaper? Just use mono tracks an load those IRs in the exact same place in the timeline and lower the volume so that they don't peak and do a WAV mono export. I'm sure there's an easier way to do this but this is how I do it. You should use an IR plugin to test the IRs first. You can find free programs in the Redwirez webpage.
 
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