Amp in the room simulation

[DBraz]

OK people please don’t shoot me down because I bring up ANOTHER amp in the room subject.

I wonder whether tech will ever be developed that can replicate an amp in the room sound?

My Sonos system uses an iPhone app to “measure” the room and subsequently makes adjustments to give the best sound.

Could a variation of this create an amp in the room sim on an Axe FX product I wonder?

 

[Rex]

OK people please don’t shoot me down because I bring up ANOTHER amp in the room subject.

Okay, I’ll hold my fire — even though you pinned a target to your shirt.

My Sonos system uses an iPhone app to “measure” the room and subsequently makes adjustments to give the best sound.

Could a variation of this create an amp in the room sim on an Axe FX product I wonder?

Not the same thing. That app just compensates for EQ at one point in the room. If you could create “amp in the room” with EQ, you could do it with an EQ block in the Axe-Fx.

 

[lqdsnddist]

There is nothing to simulate or model, you need an actual speaker cabinet in an actual room, and ideally that room needs to be the typical bedroom or den type of environment hobbyist guitarist tend to play in. You'll notice no one wants the sound of an amp in the basement or amp in the garage, because those acoustics are awful.

The 'problem' isn't the source, its the acoustics of the room.

Think of it this way, you can record a performance in a great concert hall and use a bunch of mics, mix it all together and its a very accurate capture of the sound, but then when you go back and play it on a speaker/monitor, its the sound of the venue and performance coming from a point source, which will have some room interactions in itself, but it is not going to achieve the same acoustics as actually being in that concert hall, and all those instruments, from lots of different seats, as you heard it from a given "sweet spot" in the concert hall.

I don't know why people have such a tough time grasping the concept really.....

Take an amp, ideally an open back combo, play it in a given room. That is the amp in room sound. Now take that same amp and go play it in your bathroom. Sounds different, its still "amp in room" but its going to be far more reverberate as the acoustics of the room have changed.

Unless your listening to a speaker in a true anechoic chamber, your ALWAYS going to hear the direct sound of the speaker/source, AND the reverberations of the room. Big hard surface room, your going to hear the direct than a lot of reverberation. Small carpeted room, you'll hear the direct and a lot less reverberation.

Its the exact same thing for vocalist. People like how they sound singing in the shower due to the acoustics. Singers however never seem to suggest they can't perform or record without their "voice in room" sounds, but guitarist, some at least, are apparently so used to the familiarity of how they've dialed in their tone at home, that they apparently can't otherwise play without that sound. Stick a mic in front of their cab live or for recording ? Suddenly they've lost the inspiration and can't play their best, so they say.

"Needing" amp in room is essentially the same as only being able to sing when your in the shower.

 

[Perdikament]

"Needing" amp in room is essentially the same as only being able to sing when your in the shower.

Or like the kid who says he touched boob at summer camp.

 

[haffner1]

You'll notice no one wants the sound of an amp in the basement or amp in the garage, because those acoustics are awful.

I personally have been in search of that "amp in the 40 ft. shipping container" sound. Believe me when I say, there's nothing quite like it.

 

[Jimmytwotimes]

You want an amp in your room - get a power amp and cabinet - there you go !
I have real amps and an axe fx with power amp and 2x12 - and they both sound like an amp in the room...
I know your question was asking if some kind of simulation or eq fix could help with it..
All I know is that every room and every stage is different ... you could eq it differently depending on the room - run a spectrum analyzer or something...

 

[GLiDE BPM]

Not to mention the Fletcher–Munson effects with a loudly cranked amp in any given "room"... LoL!

That's why I like my Gemini 2 better than my other FRFR cabs. Loud 2x12... Moves air and destroys ears... Hehehe

 

[DBraz]

Thanks for the feedback. For what it’s worth I have a Powerstation and a cab in addition to always recording directly.

I never play in a bedroom but was trying to grasp whether similar tech Sonos use for their speakers had a similar use in the Axe FX. I guess I didn’t fully grasp the concept!

 

[yeky83]

Tech already exists. Far-field IRs will give you amp-in-room when played through an FRFR.

Close miked IRs include the mic EQ as well as room reflections. With FF IRs, you get none of these. The only room content you get will be from your own room, no additional one imparted by the IR. Amp-in-room, bam.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Add dephase and crank it up, amp in the room complete.

Seriously all you need is a nonphasey ir that has the least amount of room baked into the ir, then crank it up to get room reflection of the actual room you are in. Sounds just like a real amp to me. I think farfields are a step in the wrong direction unless you are using headphones or in ears. Otherwise you are doubling up on room reflections.

Anyway, this works for me but obviously not everyone or this topic would not keep coming up.

 

[lqdsnddist]

Did you know there is a CLR in the room sound and that it’s different than a near field monitor in the room ?

Having just moved, my studio/den is now in a room with different positions and my desk is setup in a different area, with my monitors (scepter s6 w/ t10 sub) just sitting on top of it, basically just for music listening while unpacking. Well they sound pretty different, especially off axis and mid field than my old room used, as does my clr which is in the corner. In the untreated room the placements, as well as the inherent dispersion differences, and my listening position give them a different sound/sensation even though I know they are both about as flat as you can get for a reasonable price (both are coactual designs even).

Now this isn’t news but it did make me think a bit how people could change their overall listening experience depending on where they put their speaker, how treated the room is etc.

Put a little 1x8 or 1x10 open back combo in a corner and it’s going to sound huge, due to the acoustics of the room and the boost in low end. Stick a closed back cab or frfr speaker in the middle and it’s going to sound a bit smaller” and more of a point source.

My centerpoint space station pseudo stereo monitor actually suggests leaning it against a wall to sound the fullest and increase the pseudo stereo spread

As such, I think we are often getting some apples to oranges comparisons when someone hears their amp and can, which is likely going to be on the floor, and from most pictures set up against a wall, verses a monitor on the desktop or on a stand.

You can basically make any playback device sound better or worse, though affect the accuracy, through placement.

Put a CLR into the corner of the room about a foot from the wall and it’s going to rattle the walls enough to where I doubt many will say they miss a 4x12. Put it in the center of the room, in a wedge setting, like I run mine, and it’s going to sound more accurate, but lack that hyped up low end from the corner.

I think folks need to not just think of the room the amp is in when it comes to amp in room, but also where in the room. I see lots of setup pictures where things are pretty poor setups acoustically, but maybe work practically, and hey, lots of us are lucky to not have to have a guest bed or craft table in our studio spaces right ? Lol. Few are going to have acoustically treated spaces but stop and move things around , so you like the sound of a speaker cab, or do you like the sound of a speaker near the wall ?

 

[yeky83]

I think farfields are a step in the wrong direction unless you are using headphones or in ears. Otherwise you are doubling up on room reflections.

Huh? How is using far-field IRs doubling up on room reflections? The whole point is that they contain no reflections, you seem to have a mistaken understanding on what they are. They're very much a step in the right direction if you want amp-in-room sounds.

 

[unix-guy]

Add dephase and crank it up, amp in the room complete.

Seriously all you need is a nonphasey ir that has the least amount of room baked into the ir, then crank it up to get room reflection of the actual room you are in. Sounds just like a real amp to me. I think farfields are a step in the wrong direction unless you are using headphones or in ears. Otherwise you are doubling up on room reflections.

Anyway, this works for me but obviously not everyone or this topic would not keep coming up.

Unless you are used to listening to your guitar cabinet from a couple inches away, then I'm not sure what you are talking about? Listening to a guitar cabinet from several (or more) feet away does NOT sound like what a mic several inches (or less) from a speaker sounds like.

Yes, you can add a "room" to the sound by natural or artificial (Reverb) means, but that is not the same thing.

 

[jefferski]

I personally have been in search of that "amp in the 40 ft. shipping container" sound. Believe me when I say, there's nothing quite like it.

A thick plate reverb is your friend... ;-)

And back on topic, when I run my AFX into a cab in a room, it sounds like "amp in the room." When I play thru headphones, DAW, etc, it sounds like "every recorded guitar tone ever." Not trying to be snarky, just being real with what my ears tell me.

 

[Rex]

I think farfields are a step in the wrong direction unless you are using headphones or in ears. Otherwise you are doubling up on room reflections.
.

A well-shot far-field IR has no room reflections

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Unless you are used to listening to your guitar cabinet from a couple inches away, then I'm not sure what you are talking about? Listening to a guitar cabinet from several (or more) feet away does NOT sound like what a mic several inches (or less) from a speaker sounds like.

Yes, you can add a "room" to the sound by natural or artificial (Reverb) means, but that is not the same thing.

I understand that the Axe produces the recorded tone, but if you crank it up and use it in a back line situation as you would a real amp n cab, now it no longer sounds like a recorded tone do to the room reflections.

 

[unix-guy]

I understand that the Axe produces the recorded tone, but if you crank it up and use it in a back line situation as you would a real amp n cab, now it no longer sounds like a recorded tone do to the room reflections.

I don't agree... It includes mic coloration and proximity effects.

I'm not saying it can't sound good, but it certainly won't sound like the cab and speaker that was captured did in the room.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

A well-shot far-field IR has no room reflections

Okay, how does that work? The one article I read showed more several different captures each at a further distance from the speaker and the peaks of the IR were more intense the farther away. Is there something done to remove the room reflections?

Other than room reflections what is different about the sound right up against the speaker vs a distance away?

 

[Rex]

Is there something done to remove the room reflections?

Yes. The capture has to be performed quickly enough, and in a room that's large enough, that reflections don't have time to arrive.

Other than room reflections what is different about the sound right up against the speaker vs a distance away?

Drag a cab out into an open field. Listen to it from 20 feet away, then listen to it with your ear pressed against the grill. You'll hear the difference right away.

 

[flying_walrus]

Yes. The capture has to be performed quickly enough, and in a room that's large enough, that reflections don't have time to arrive.



Drag a cab out into an open field. Listen to it from 20 feet away, then listen to it with your ear pressed against the grill. You'll hear the difference right away.

I tried this, then there was a wet "Pop", now I can't hear anything. I think my ax8 broke or something.