amp + FRFR how to route it?

[ACevilmuffin]

I'm trying to figure out how to route my signal.
I'll be using a stereo poweramp+ cab for my personal monitoring and a FRFR for ... the rest.
I want to add a cab-sim to my FRFR, yet not to my poweramp setup.
I want to use the xlr outs of output 1.

 

[stef herbuel]

hi
i have not receive my ultra by i think i can answer :

in the axe you have to do like this :

guitar - input - stomp - amp - effects - LOOP - cab sim

the send of the loop will go in your personal power amp without the cab emulation

and with the xlr out for the FRFR

 

[joegold]

See page 95 of the Ultra manual. Using Your Axe-FX live.
Not sure what page it's on in the Standard manual.

 

[ACevilmuffin]

See page 95 of the Ultra manual. Using Your Axe-FX live.
Not sure what page it's on in the Standard manual.

but that's when you put the cab sim at the end of you chain... I don't, and that's the problem.

 

[javajunkie]

See page 95 of the Ultra manual. Using Your Axe-FX live.
Not sure what page it's on in the Standard manual.

but that's when you put the cab sim at the end of you chain... I don't, and that's the problem.

Well, if you want to do that you need to put your cab at the end of the chain or run to separate instances of the same effect. In a lot cases it doesn't matter if it is last.

From Cliff:

It actually doesn't matter for most effects. It the effects are linear, time-invariant (LTI), then the order is irrelevant. If you don't use the cabinet drive then it's LTI. Reverb is LTI. Delay is LTI. Now if you use modulation technically it's not LTI but it is "wide-sense stationary" so you can treat it as LTI. The only blocks that aren't LTI are the stuff that does pitch shifting (time-variant) or distortion (nonlinear).

 

[joegold]

See page 95 of the Ultra manual. Using Your Axe-FX live.
Not sure what page it's on in the Standard manual.

but that's when you put the cab sim at the end of you chain... I don't, and that's the problem.

Well I sort of resisted putting the Cab block at the end of the chain too, because it means that you're running all those nice time-based effects (like reverb and delay) through the cabinet sim which filters out all sorts of frequencies. But it doesn't sound all that different than putting the Cab block in front of the time-based effects. Try it first before you pass on the idea.

It would definitely be hipper if the software had a way (probably under the Global Menu) of simply bypassing any Cab block within a preset on the 2nd pair of Outputs (non-bypassed on the 1st pair of Outputs, of course).
But I've got a feeling that this is too hard to do or Cliff would have done it already.

 

[ACevilmuffin]

thanks, I'll try that then.

 

[javajunkie]

See page 95 of the Ultra manual. Using Your Axe-FX live.
Not sure what page it's on in the Standard manual.

but that's when you put the cab sim at the end of you chain... I don't, and that's the problem.

Well I sort of resisted putting the Cab block at the end of the chain too, because it means that you're running all those nice time-based effects (like reverb and delay) through the cabinet sim which filters out all sorts of frequencies. But it doesn't sound all that different than putting the Cab block in front of the time-based effects. Try it first before you pass on the idea.

It would definitely be hipper if the software had a way (probably under the Global Menu) of simply bypassing any Cab block within a preset on the 2nd pair of Outputs (non-bypassed on the 1st pair of Outputs, of course).
But I've got a feeling that this is too hard to do or Cliff would have done it already.

It doesn't matter at all with the time based effects (other than you have have set to stereo or use 2 cabs panned hard left/right). From Cliff and others have said (this seems to be the case from all the documentation and experimentation I have tried), For Linear Time Invariant (LTI) effects (Cabs, reverbs, delay, et al.) order does not matter.

Now, if you place any of those effects in front of an effect that is not LTI (drive blocks, amps, tremolo, etc.), it can make a very noticeable difference.

 

[joegold]

Well, as much sense as that LTI-talk might make to a engineer or a scientist, it doesn't make all that much sense to me!
I'll have to y'all's word on that.

For me, the question has always been; When do I want to run my sound through the filter of a guitar speaker?
Does it make more sense to lose those frequencies prior to reverberating them or after.
I've always thought that prior was more sophisticated because it models what goes on in a studio: Amp > Mic > Effects, especially if you're using a speaker that breaks up for a rock sound.
But, unless there's speaker break-up involved, it may not really matter where in the chain those frequencies get filtered out.
If they're filtered out pre-reverb, then they simply won't be present in the reverberated signal. If they're filtered out after the reverb then they won't be present in the reverberated signal either, possibly in the same proportions either way.
And I've noticed very little if any difference putting the cab sim at the end of the chain. I don't generally use speaker breakup very much though.

 

[javajunkie]

Well, as much sense as that LTI-talk might make to a engineer or a scientist, it doesn't make all that much sense to me!
I'll have to y'all's word on that.

For me, the question has always been; When do I want to run my sound through the filter of a guitar speaker?
Does it make more sense to lose those frequencies prior to reverberating them or after.
I've always thought that prior was more sophisticated because it models what goes on in a studio: Amp > Mic > Effects, especially if you're using a speaker that breaks up for a rock sound.
But, unless there's speaker break-up involved, it may not really matter where in the chain those frequencies get filtered out.
If they're filtered out pre-reverb, then they simply won't be present in the reverberated signal. If they're filtered out after the reverb then they won't be present in the reverberated signal either, possibly in the same proportions either way.
And I've noticed very little if any difference putting the cab sim at the end of the chain. I don't generally use speaker breakup very much though.

Speaker breakup (drive parameter in the speaker) can make some difference. You have the general idea. Whether reverb,delay, and the like are filtered before or after makes no difference so long as the filter has a linear response (which the cab sims do).