Amp block tweaks for more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression?

[Tiger1016]

Try the Cornfed amp model. It is the most percussive high gain amp I’ve tried in the Axe. I like it with a TS style boost in the input to fatten up the mids, but experiment to your taste. It’s like a hotrodded Marshall and a Recto had a beautiful monster baby. Amazing amp for what you’re describing.

Damn I think you might have recommended a gem for me! Just breezed through a few demos of this amp and it does seem like it has a voice that could work well for me. Not using the right listening setup at the moment to be able to really tell on the punchy dynamics, but it did seem like it might be a few steps ahead than the other models I was going to try to start with. Thanks!

 

[Cam Heiliger]

Damn I think you might have recommended a gem for me! Just breezed through a few demos of this amp and it does seem like it has a voice that could work well for me. Not using the right listening setup at the moment to be able to really tell on the punchy dynamics, but it did seem like it might be a few steps ahead than the other models I was going to try to start with. Thanks!

No problem! That model hits like a hammer. It always stands out to me for that reason and even though I try other high gain models, I always come back to it. The input boost makes a big difference, so turn down the overdrive dial to about 3 to start. Leave the MV at stock and adjust input gain to suit your guitar. FAS Boost, TS808 and TSMod all sound great to me. I’m partial to Greenback or Creamback IRs personally but I could see this working with several different models depending on taste. Good luck!

 

[Tiger1016]

No problem! That model hits like a hammer. It always stands out to me for that reason and even though I try other high gain models, I always come back to it. The input boost makes a big difference, so turn down the overdrive dial to about 3 to start. Leave the MV at stock and adjust input gain to suit your guitar. FAS Boost, TS808 and TSMod all sound great to me. I’m partial to Greenback or Creamback IRs personally but I could see this working with several different models depending on taste. Good luck!

Yeah I'm with ya on the speaker choices and I'm also partial to the base starting with Mesa V30s a lot of time too.

Regarding the boost experimentation, I wonder if you might want to try what I ultimately settled on myself. I've found that I prefer to just throw in EQs instead of boosts because boosts seem to detract from openess, rawness, and add compression. I got in deep with boosts during my Recto and Mark days but then after I had a turn with a non-GEQ IIC+ and picked up a Source Audio EQ2 with a 10 band parametric EQ and phone app that makes it as easy to use as a graphic EQ, the tone sculpting became so much easier while not taking away from what I was going for. But it helps when you are able to get your hand on an amp that is naturally everything you want and don't need to mess around with pre-EQ, loop EQ, or post IR EQ (aside from the mandatory hi and low cuts) and try to force an amp to be something it isn't. That what the Wizard Hybrid has been for me. The Cornfed demos seemed to be in a similar ballpark, so I really hopeful and excited that this could do it for me along with integrating all of the other tips in this thread.

BTW I see the Bulldog logo. You guys are making life tough for my Tigers. I thought that Bama showing a little sliver of a reversion back to the mean was going to maybe open things up for us, but then you guys had to be the ones to rise to the occasion first. What a NC blowout!

 

[Stratoblaster]

Set Speaker Comp to zero.

I've been doing a lot of experimenting with the parameters in the Speaker Tab as of late and have duplicated my main preset to one with everything identical except that I've turned "Speaker Comp" completely off. I'm going to compare both presets/tones at rehearsal tonight and see which I may like better.

 

[Stratoblaster]

Also try increasing the "Input Dynamics" parameter to get more punch/attack.

I'm finding that I only need to tweak this parameter to 0.3 -> 0.5 for just a slight dynamic expansion of a ~1.5db or so on my crunchy/gain-ier tones to give them a little more life/feel. It's easy to overwork this control.

 

[Tiger1016]

Alright, it has been a long while since my original post, and I have finally gotten around to documenting some hopefully helpful tips for those who might be interested in trying to tone chase after Wizard amps in the Axe Fx or generally figuring out how to deep edit tweak mid to high gain tones to be. Everything in here started off from all of the helpful comments throughout this thread.

All of the tweaks that I have outlined below trend toward trying to achieve the most percussive punch as possible, with a very raw and uncompressed feel that is quite in your face, with a big low end that is tight and controlled that would be considered quite dry, with a Marshall oriented tone and a nice midrange grind.

You can cut straight to the outline below starting at the Amp Block if you don’t want the extra context.

My goal has been to try to satisfactorily recreate the unique feel of my Wizard amps and get things to the point where the Axe tones are virtually indistinguishable when doing a direct comparison so I can wind up selling down the collection from four to just one (for the fun occasion of blasting through a 4x12 every once in a while).

My process was to sift through the Marshall style amps in the Austin Buddy Naked Amps Tone Pack to try to find the closest starting point from a voicing and feel perspective. What I settled on was the Friedman BE V1. I then dialed in my Wizard MTL MKII 100W and MCI 100W A Transformer to my typical higher gain tone for alt rock and alt metal kinds of stuff and ran these through a Suhr Reactive Load then into the Axe and used the same IR to dial in the Amp Block until I was close enough. Monitoring was mainly though Atomic CLRs on poles used as midfiled monitors in an untreated room as well as through a nice studio headphone setup (Audeze LCD XC headphones powered by a Topping A90 amp).

The MTL delivers an intoxicatingly ripping and intense bottom end and overall feel but it is oddly kind of light in the midrange department while the MCI has what seems to be my ideal midrange voicing with a low end that is a bit less aggressive compared to the MTL and would probably be favored by the majority for these particular tones. I feel like I have nearly achieved the MCI tone and feel here but have not mastered the last mile on the MTL’s low end just yet.

My plans for next steps are to chase after mid and low gain tones while also trying to perfect the last stages of these relatively higher gain tones, but I wanted to go ahead and send out what I had for now. I plan to do another follow up with final and comprehensive thoughts once I get there and might drop these into a new thread to make it easier for others to reference instead of burying it in this older thread. I’ll also upload and link to the Preset as soon as I can.

Amp block
1. Ideal
a. MV decrease to 3.9
b. Cut switch to On
c. Bright cap to 220 pF, but not sure this made much of a difference
d. Added a slight amount of bass, mids, high treble, and depth
2. Preamp
a. Preamp Sag to Off
b. Some changes I made before switching the Sag switch off were Tube Hardness to 10 and Preamp Bias Excursion to 10%
c. Tonestack to 760
d. Saturation Drive to 1, but probably meaningless with Saturation Switch set to Off
e. Change Low Cut Frequency to 10Hz and High Cut to 12000 Hz
f. I have not gotten around to playing around with other Preamp Tube Type options yet
3. Poweramp
a. Negative Feedback to 10
b. Depth Frequency to 260 Hz
c. XFormer Drive o 0.1
d. XFormer Matching to 0.5
4. Pwr Tubes + CF
a. Cathode Follower section: Compression to 0% and Harmonics to 0.6
b. I do wonder if fiddling around with the Power Tubes section controls might do anything useful, and I have not played around with the other Power Tube Type options yet
5. Power Supply
a. Supply Sag to 0
b. Variac to 50%
6. Speaker
a. Speaker Compress. to 0
b. There might be more in here to mess with
7. Input EQ
a. Low Cut to 10 Hz
8. Output EQ
a. Nothing yet, but I want to play around with the tone stack some more to cut bass there then boost it here and see if I can improve on the tightness some more this way
9. Dynamics
a. Input Dynamics 0.5, but I am not sure this is necessary or will ultimately remain desirable


Cab Block
10. Cab
a. I have not spent enough time full messing around with this section yet as I plan switch over to DynaCabs next, but here are the notable changes I have made so far using a Legacy Cab.
b. Low and High Cut to taste (like it is even necessary to mention this to anyone who is following along at this point)
11. Preamp
a. Note, I made these changes very early on and they might not be ideal at this point
b. Low Cut to 150 Hz with a 12 dB slope
12. Room/Air
a. Air down to 0%

 

[Randalljax]

Alright, it has been a long while since my original post, and I have finally gotten around to documenting some hopefully helpful tips for those who might be interested in trying to tone chase after Wizard amps in the Axe Fx or generally figuring out how to deep edit tweak mid to high gain tones to be. Everything in here started off from all of the helpful comments throughout this thread.

All of the tweaks that I have outlined below trend toward trying to achieve the most percussive punch as possible, with a very raw and uncompressed feel that is quite in your face, with a big low end that is tight and controlled that would be considered quite dry, with a Marshall oriented tone and a nice midrange grind.

You can cut straight to the outline below starting at the Amp Block if you don’t want the extra context.

My goal has been to try to satisfactorily recreate the unique feel of my Wizard amps and get things to the point where the Axe tones are virtually indistinguishable when doing a direct comparison so I can wind up selling down the collection from four to just one (for the fun occasion of blasting through a 4x12 every once in a while).

My process was to sift through the Marshall style amps in the Austin Buddy Naked Amps Tone Pack to try to find the closest starting point from a voicing and feel perspective. What I settled on was the Friedman BE V1. I then dialed in my Wizard MTL MKII 100W and MCI 100W A Transformer to my typical higher gain tone for alt rock and alt metal kinds of stuff and ran these through a Suhr Reactive Load then into the Axe and used the same IR to dial in the Amp Block until I was close enough. Monitoring was mainly though Atomic CLRs on poles used as midfiled monitors in an untreated room as well as through a nice studio headphone setup (Audeze LCD XC headphones powered by a Topping A90 amp).

The MTL delivers an intoxicatingly ripping and intense bottom end and overall feel but it is oddly kind of light in the midrange department while the MCI has what seems to be my ideal midrange voicing with a low end that is a bit less aggressive compared to the MTL and would probably be favored by the majority for these particular tones. I feel like I have nearly achieved the MCI tone and feel here but have not mastered the last mile on the MTL’s low end just yet.

My plans for next steps are to chase after mid and low gain tones while also trying to perfect the last stages of these relatively higher gain tones, but I wanted to go ahead and send out what I had for now. I plan to do another follow up with final and comprehensive thoughts once I get there and might drop these into a new thread to make it easier for others to reference instead of burying it in this older thread. I’ll also upload and link to the Preset as soon as I can.

Amp block
1. Ideal
a. MV decrease to 3.9
b. Cut switch to On
c. Bright cap to 220 pF, but not sure this made much of a difference
d. Added a slight amount of bass, mids, high treble, and depth
2. Preamp
a. Preamp Sag to Off
b. Some changes I made before switching the Sag switch off were Tube Hardness to 10 and Preamp Bias Excursion to 10%
c. Tonestack to 760
d. Saturation Drive to 1, but probably meaningless with Saturation Switch set to Off
e. Change Low Cut Frequency to 10Hz and High Cut to 12000 Hz
f. I have not gotten around to playing around with other Preamp Tube Type options yet
3. Poweramp
a. Negative Feedback to 10
b. Depth Frequency to 260 Hz
c. XFormer Drive o 0.1
d. XFormer Matching to 0.5
4. Pwr Tubes + CF
a. Cathode Follower section: Compression to 0% and Harmonics to 0.6
b. I do wonder if fiddling around with the Power Tubes section controls might do anything useful, and I have not played around with the other Power Tube Type options yet
5. Power Supply
a. Supply Sag to 0
b. Variac to 50%
6. Speaker
a. Speaker Compress. to 0
b. There might be more in here to mess with
7. Input EQ
a. Low Cut to 10 Hz
8. Output EQ
a. Nothing yet, but I want to play around with the tone stack some more to cut bass there then boost it here and see if I can improve on the tightness some more this way
9. Dynamics
a. Input Dynamics 0.5, but I am not sure this is necessary or will ultimately remain desirable


Cab Block
10. Cab
a. I have not spent enough time full messing around with this section yet as I plan switch over to DynaCabs next, but here are the notable changes I have made so far using a Legacy Cab.
b. Low and High Cut to taste (like it is even necessary to mention this to anyone who is following along at this point)
11. Preamp
a. Note, I made these changes very early on and they might not be ideal at this point
b. Low Cut to 150 Hz with a 12 dB slope
12. Room/Air
a. Air down to 0%

That new Brit silver voicing that has now been changed to the silver Jubillee might be useful to you as well

 

[Tiger1016]

That new Brit silver voicing that has now been changed to the silver Jubillee might be useful to you as well

Definitely. I am a not sure how it will play out though.

Based on shootout comparisons I have seen between a JCM800 and Silver Jubilee, it seems like it is relatively smoother, darker, more compressed, and less dynamic, which are all headed in the wrong direction for me even though the original Modern Classic is said to have been based off of the SJ with an extra gain stage, some component changes, and a more intense transformer (I believe). That said the Friedman BE seems to share some of the same wrong direction trends in similar shootouts too, so it will be interesting to see.

I also plan to try out the JCM800 options and the other amp models mentioned throughout this thread. Just haven't gotten there yet.

 

[Tiger1016]

Simple preset attached with where I am at for now.

 

[rcarmichael9999]

Have yet to try a lot of the really deep parameters some have mentioned, but putting the input dynamics parameter around 2 has helped with the issues you have described

 

[Budda]

Did you record a clip of original axe tone vs the 2024 version?

 

[Tiger1016]

I have been chipping away at faithfully matching my Wizard MTL MkII and Modern Classic amps. My ears tonight say I am 100% matched in feel, dynamics, frequency response, voicing, etc. to my go to settings for both now, but I'll have to circle back another day after letting the ear fatigue settle down.

The biggest revelation on trying to match the big low end that does not flub out was on the Speaker tab. I switched to using the 4x12 Recto Large impedance curve (even though the amps are running into a Shur Reactive Load, which should be a better match a 4x12 Greenback) and for the Low Frequency section widen out (decrease) the LF Q and increase the LF Resonance. The Tonematch block was surprisingly a step back all of the times I tried it, and I could not dial in enough bass quantity with the Bass and Depth controls or a post EQ option, but these Speaker tab adjustments were the final little bit of secret sauce. Also, for the MTL the Friedman HBE V1 model and for the MCI the Friedman Small Box amp models turned out to be the best baseline models to work from than my original attempts with the BE V1 model.

I'll still have to do another round of work for the mid gain and driven tones from the MC I, and then I'll need get to doing a proper comparison video.

These tones won't be for everyone, but I think this could be valuable input for those who have been wanting to get the Wizard amp kind of thing out of the Fractal units!

The latest preset attached again for reference.

 

[oacikgoz]

I have been chipping away at faithfully matching my Wizard MTL MkII and Modern Classic amps. My ears tonight say I am 100% matched in feel, dynamics, frequency response, voicing, etc. to my go to settings for both now, but I'll have to circle back another day after letting the ear fatigue settle down.

The biggest revelation on trying to match the big low end that does not flub out was on the Speaker tab. I switched to using the 4x12 Recto Large impedance curve (even though the amps are running into a Shur Reactive Load, which should be a better match a 4x12 Greenback) and for the Low Frequency section widen out (decrease) the LF Q and increase the LF Resonance. The Tonematch block was surprisingly a step back all of the times I tried it, and I could not dial in enough bass quantity with the Bass and Depth controls or a post EQ option, but these Speaker tab adjustments were the final little bit of secret sauce. Also, for the MTL the Friedman HBE V1 model and for the MCI the Friedman Small Box amp models turned out to be the best baseline models to work from than my original attempts with the BE V1 model.

I'll still have to do another round of work for the mid gain and driven tones from the MC I, and then I'll need get to doing a proper comparison video.

These tones won't be for everyone, but I think this could be valuable input for those who have been wanting to get the Wizard amp kind of thing out of the Fractal units!

The latest preset attached again for reference.

@Tiger1016 I’m no expert, but looking at your settings, you seem to have dialed in an ultralinear power amp section. Is that how Wizard power amp operates?

 

[Tiger1016]

@Tiger1016 I’m no expert, but looking at your settings, you seem to have dialed in an ultralinear power amp section. Is that how Wizard power amp operates?

I'm no expert of technically proficient in this stuff either. That said, your summarization seems accurate to me. Wizard amps are incredibly immediate, with more transients than normal, and generally on the dry side. So lacking in sag, saturation, bloom, etc. All relative of course.

It's not for everyone or every occasion. Can be fairly unforgiving if your playing is sloppy or you are overly self critical and in your head over every small mistake. And for polished recordings, the transients get smoothed out and get diluted. But as a rhythm player with a very percussive style (and just relegated to being a hobbyists going forward), this style allows me to really feel my expressiveness in a way that other amps can't.

 

[Cpt737]

This is so not my style but I had to give it a shot.



Here's the preset if you want to tweak it some more

I really like that first scene with the hot kitty amp block. Sounds great with with mesa cabs with seymour duncan PA. Good eq work at the end.
Wizards have that spongy & bouncy feel like JTMs with high enough gain saturation to attack without being so smooth. Really hard to capture I guess. There is a wishlist, users have been requesting that amp model including me lol. Hope they add it in the future.