Amp block tweaks for more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression?

Tiger1016 said:
I’m looking for help in identifying which parameters in the amp block will most directly contribute to tweaking a given amp model to having more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression, etc. while not killing all of the saturation and making an amp too dry.
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That is pretty darn close to how I would have described the transformer match (xformer match) parameter.
 
giantslayer said:
That is pretty darn close to how I would have described the transformer match (xformer match) parameter.
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Transformer match is a parameter I haven’t tried yet. I will but can’t play right now since I had surgery on my left shoulder a week ago. Off work and can’t play guitar. It blows. I was reading through some old posts related to types of clipping in tube amps and what things affect how hard or soft the clipping is. It’s a good read, posted by Cliff. Transformer match was mentioned as a way to change those characteristics.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ghost-fizz.77539/page-7#post-947075
 
skolacki said:
Transformer match is a parameter I haven’t tried yet. I will but can’t play right now since I had surgery on my left shoulder a week ago. Off work and can’t play guitar. It blows. I was reading through some old posts related to types of clipping in tube amps and what things affect how hard or soft the clipping is. It’s a good read, posted by Cliff. Transformer match was mentioned as a way to change those characteristics.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ghost-fizz.77539/page-7#post-947075
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Thabks for posting this link! It was a helpful read.

And good luck with a speedy recovery on the shoulder.
 
skolacki said:
Transformer match is a parameter I haven’t tried yet. I will but can’t play right now since I had surgery on my left shoulder a week ago. Off work and can’t play guitar. It blows. I was reading through some old posts related to types of clipping in tube amps and what things affect how hard or soft the clipping is. It’s a good read, posted by Cliff. Transformer match was mentioned as a way to change those characteristics.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ghost-fizz.77539/page-7#post-947075
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Like Cliff wrote, I think that you must try to find the irs that sound good for you before any in depth tweaking.

I hate that but I think we don’t have a choice lol.

Some irs feel more full and less compressed with some amps etc etc.
 
Joshua_L said:
Like Cliff wrote, I think that you must try to find the irs that sound good for you before any in depth tweaking.

I hate that but I think we don’t have a choice lol.

Some irs feel more full and less compressed with some amps etc etc.
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Or try the new Dyna-cab, it really is much more "open" sounding and takes the muffled/compressed low end out of the equation with just some small mic movements.
 
Joshua_L said:
Like Cliff wrote, I think that you must try to find the irs that sound good for you before any in depth tweaking.

I hate that but I think we don’t have a choice lol.

Some irs feel more full and less compressed with some amps etc etc.
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1,000%! The right IR is absolutely critical. I've been dialing in my IR's in with Mikko from ML Soundlabs for the past few years, and being able to move the mics around to taste has made a world of difference. And it was honestly the noticing of the new Dynacab feature in the Axe that was the stimulus for me to dust off the amp block in my Axe to try to coax a Wizatd level of punch out of amps that I like the voice of since the synchronized integration could be so convenient.

I don't think anyone would say a Mark IIC+ is lacking in punch, but the real thing or the Axe model of it next to a Wizard will show that it's noticeably behind on a realtive basis, even with a more dynamic and punchy IR used. At least that was my personal experience. And that's why I started this thread, to help narrow down the search for the parameters thay could help to neutralize the playing field.
 
Tiger1016 said:
1,000%! The right IR is absolutely critical. I've been dialing in my IR's in with Mikko from ML Soundlabs for the past few years, and being able to move the mics around to taste has made a world of difference. And it was honestly the noticing of the new Dynacab feature in the Axe that was the stimulus for me to dust off the amp block in my Axe to try to coax a Wizatd level of punch out of amps that I like the voice of since the synchronized integration could be so convenient.

I don't think anyone would say a Mark IIC+ is lacking in punch, but the real thing or the Axe model of it next to a Wizard will show that it's noticeably behind on a realtive basis, even with a more dynamic and punchy IR used. At least that was my personal experience. And that's why I started this thread, to help narrow down the search for the parameters thay could help to neutralize the playing field.
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Can you post a recording of what Wizard sound you are going for ?

Is it like this

 
Tiger1016 said:
I’m looking for help in identifying which parameters in the amp block will most directly contribute to tweaking a given amp model to having more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression, etc. while not killing all of the saturation and making an amp too dry/sterile.
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I'm trying for a few of the same qualities, mostly it's openness and less compression. Try these settings.

On some amps the master volume can sound like a towel thrown over the speaker, maybe for leads that's good but for open rhythm I like 4 to 6. The cut is on, this clears things up to. Also choose right, or left, for input select.

Ideal.jpg

For the preamp, even though the input boost switch is off, choosing a boost type still
has an effect, for what you want try "Grinder". Note the Tube Hardness is off, this is tricky
in that it can eat into the flesh of a note too much, you can make it up at the Power Tube stage.
The Tonestack is another big deal, try a Brit Silver or Hot Kitty for example, these are bright
hi gain amps. The dialing in between of the tonestack frequency makes a huge difference, mess about
between 450hz and 700hz. Try the 12axa7a RCA for a Preamp Tube type.


preamp.jpg

Note the Supply Sag is at O, this gives an immediate attack, the B time is fully open.

power supply.jpg


This is one of the most important sections I have found, note there's no speaker drive, no compression,
no compliance or speaker thump. For speaker thump I move the Low Freq between 100 to 250 hz, at a
resonance of 2 to 5, then adjust the Q accordingly. For a harder rhythm attack, choose medium for your
speaker breakup. I like Soft because there's more 'note' and less attack. I like the 1x8 Champlifier also,
it's a tighter attack overall. For that raw rhythm sound try playing with the Cab Resonance, like at least 100%.
speaker.jpg


These settings should be pretty close for you. For aggression in the highs, try turning the
Grid Bias up to 80%. Note everything is off in the Cathode Follower Section.

power tubes.jpg


Good Luck.
 
Randalljax said:
Can you post a recording of what Wizard sound you are going for ?

Is it like this

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That actual amp if the first wizard that I bought. After picking up this MCI from Blake a few months after that video was posted, I picked up a MTL EL34 100w, sold my Mark V 90w and IIC+, then picked up a MCII KT75, and then a Hybrid (MTL preamp and MCII power amp) 50w EL34. The other recordings I can point to that are immediately available are from our boy Leon Todd and the ZEN Amplification stuff he participated in.

Blake's video does fairly represent the voice of the MCI, but the dynamics are very compressed in what you can actually gather from YouTube. I feel like the Zen stuff captured the punch and dynamics a bit better. But any of these compressly delivered recordings still don't present the punch and dynamics that a Wizard can deliver. Even when I am running them into a load box and using closed back headphones, Audeze LCD XC, I can feel them resonating and vibrating to the point that someone can hear it from the next room over (and I not going deaf, completely).



 
Marantz said:
This is so not my style but I had to give it a shot.



Here's the preset if you want to tweak it some more
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I love this dude. You mentioned the tone/riff you did is not really your thing, yet you go out of your way to try to tone match and record the same riff from the posted demo. That fucking awesome in so many ways!

I can only listen through some bluetooth earbuds right now and can't dive back into my Axe for another ~36 hours hours, so can't give everything fair a fair trial just yet. So... gonna have to follow up with a response that does yours justice back shortly. In the interim, many thanks for the input.
 
Tiger1016 said:
I love this dude. You mentioned the tone/riff you did is not really your thing, yet you go out of your way to try to tone match and record the same riff from the posted demo. That fucking awesome in so many ways!

I can only listen through some bluetooth earbuds right now and can't dive back into my Axe for another ~36 hours hours, so can't give everything fair a fair trial just yet. So... gonna have to follow up with a response that does yours justice back shortly. In the interim, many thanks for the input.
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Glad you enjoyed it, love the enthusiasm in your response! haha.

It's not exact of course, but the main tip I can give you is to play with the Q on the EQ, it is very sensitive and produces great results. After listening back now ( hours later), I'd lessen the Q in the Eq a touch to mellow out the 2k to 4k region, then I'd head over to the Cab section and play with the room settings, they are very nuanced in the way they can play with the character of a sound. The mic distance in the cab room section does some interesting things also. I hope you get something useful for your style out of this. Cheers. M.
 
Tiger1016 said:
That actual amp if the first wizard that I bought. After picking up this MCI from Blake a few months after that video was posted, I picked up a MTL EL34 100w, sold my Mark V 90w and IIC+, then picked up a MCII KT75, and then a Hybrid (MTL preamp and MCII power amp) 50w EL34. The other recordings I can point to that are immediately available are from our boy Leon Todd and the ZEN Amplification stuff he participated in.

Blake's video does fairly represent the voice of the MCI, but the dynamics are very compressed in what you can actually gather from YouTube. I feel like the Zen stuff captured the punch and dynamics a bit better. But any of these compressly delivered recordings still don't present the punch and dynamics that a Wizard can deliver. Even when I am running them into a load box and using closed back headphones, Audeze LCD XC, I can feel them resonating and vibrating to the point that someone can hear it from the next room over (and I not going deaf, completely).



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That was actually the second one I was going to post lol
The Zen one is great

The tone in Blake’s vids I know he uses a Suhr reactive load and it’s always an OH Bogner V30 IR
I was surprised to learn that he was always using IRs because all of his stuff really does some big and very amp in the room like to me
Although more compressed due to the YouTube
 
Randalljax said:
That sounds really good to me and is definitely in the Ballpark
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Thanks Randalljax, much appreciated. Imagine I did this with a SD PRails ( hardly a Metal pickup ) on a 24 fret guitar with a floating bridge, if you have the proper guitar for this style with the proper pickups and a stiffer bridge setup than mine, I'm positive a metal guy could get the results he's going for. My low E is a .42 ( a typical set of 9's ) , I'm guessing they're a little thicker for Drop D metal? ... then I used the virtual capo to tune the whole thing a half-step lower. I'm sure a real metal player could get want he wanted out of the Axe Fx.
 
Randalljax said:
That was actually the second one I was going to post lol
The Zen one is great

The tone in Blake’s vids I know he uses a Suhr reactive load and it’s always an OH Bogner V30 IR
I was surprised to learn that he was always using IRs because all of his stuff really does some big and very amp in the room like to me
Although more compressed due to the YouTube
Click to expand...
I had forgotten about this video of the MTL. I think this one might have gotten past the YouTube compression nannys and delivers the punch and dynamics better than any other recordings that I can recall.



And yeah, I also run my Wizards into a Suhr RL and IRs plenty as well. With a good monitoring setup (Atomic CLR or Audeze LCD XC) and a fitting IR the punch still shows up noticeably more than any of the Mark amps I have owned at the same time or models in the Axe that I have messed around with in the past. But that said, Blake's video really did not translate well to the in person experience with the MCI. It sounds a lot smoother, less bright, and less dynamic.
 
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Try the Cornfed amp model. It is the most percussive high gain amp I’ve tried in the Axe. I like it with a TS style boost in the input to fatten up the mids, but experiment to your taste. It’s like a hotrodded Marshall and a Recto had a beautiful monster baby. Amazing amp for what you’re describing.
 
Randalljax said:
I use these settings or variations which is from the Aerosmith gift of tone it biases the power section and runs it hotter

Preamp Bias Excursion: 5.0% Default: 100.0%

Power Amp Tab:

PI Bias Excursion: 126.0%
Power Tubes + CF Tab:power Tubes -> Bias Excursion: 104.0%
Click to expand...

In addition to the above tweaks Brad's preset also turns the "Preamp Sag" to "Off" to disable that function.
 
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