Amp block tweaks for more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression?

T

Tiger1016

Inspired
I’m looking for help in identifying which parameters in the amp block will most directly contribute to tweaking a given amp model to having more punch, openness, rawness, ripping attack, less compression, etc. while not killing all of the saturation and making an amp too dry/sterile.

What I am effectively after is trying to push a given amp model closer to the feel and dynamics of my Wizard amps, which are known to be at the extremes in these departments, in part due to their large transformers.

From what I can tell, there is not a parameter that directly correlates to simulating a larger, more intense power transformer (please correct me if I'm wrong), and I’m not knowledgeable enough yet about the intricacies of amp designs to really know if this is truly the biggest contributor to the dynamics I’m most fond of. I’m basically just looking for some help in identifying which parameters in the amp block will more directly contribute to pushing an amp in these directions, and I can go back to researching and trial and error from there. I do already know that decreasing the negative feedback is one change that will help push me in the right direction.

Note, I favor amps that don’t rely on power amp distortion and tend to not be run at elevated master volume settings, and I know this will impact which parameters will be able to move the needle. Also, FWIW my tones sit mostly in the realm of alt rock/alt metal and I've always been a big fan of Mark series amps.

Thanks!!!
 
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Dynamics tab in the amp block. Take off about 0.5 on the input and about 1.0 - 1.5 on the output, then crank the clarity to 7 or higher. This will give you that attack and pick "scratch" back. Just make sure you have it on the output setting and not on the "gain enhancer"
 
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The Negative Feedback
The Cathode compression
The transformer Match
The SAG

First Wizard is based on hot rod Silver Jube so use that
For power tubes I might go KT88
Or 6550 preamp JJ

B+ TIME CONSTANT — Controls the rate of change in the power tube plate supply. Lower values give a bouncier feel, while higher values give a tighter feel.

I use these settings or variations which is from the Aerosmith gift of tone it biases the power section and runs it hotter

Preamp Bias Excursion: 5.0% Default: 100.0%

Power Amp Tab:

PI Bias Excursion: 126.0%
Power Tubes + CF Tab:power Tubes -> Bias Excursion: 104.0%
 
Its a great question. But you could also take a shortcut by picking an amp model that already provides all those things (like the Wrecked Express). I can't speak to your Wizards since I've never played one. But I do own a few expensive Boutique tube amps, and a couple vintage ones too. The Wrecked Express has the most realistic feel/dynamics to my ears/fingers (without requiring much if any tweaking). It's a favorite of mine in the Fractal Collection.

I'm not alone even the esteemed @austinbuddy agrees with me (see this post).

Either way I am sure your question will yield some great advice.
 
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jamesmarshall said:
Dynamics tab in the amp block. Take off about 0.5 on the input and about 1.0 - 1.5 on the output, then crank the clarity to 7 or higher. This will give you that attack and pick "scratch" back. Just make sure you have it on the output setting and not on the "gain enhancer"
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Just to be sure…
You mean : out compression : 0.5 and then adjusting the out comp threshold to get minus 1 - 1.5 on the gain meter?
 
Joshua_L said:
Just to be sure…
You mean : out compression : 0.5 and then adjusting the out comp threshold to get minus 1 - 1.5 on the gain meter?
Click to expand...

Not.exactly.

In the dynamics tab there are 2 compression sides input and output. The meter on the left in Axe edit is the input. Set the input until you get -0.5 comp on input comp. Then move the threshold on the output side until you get 1.0 - 1.5 DB of compression, then crank that clarity knob until you get the pick attack you like 7 and higher. If you do this on a high gain amp try the gain enhancer instead of output comp. You might back the amp gain down a small amount if you use the gain enhancer.
 
jamesmarshall said:
Not.exactly.

In the dynamics tab there are 2 compression sides input and output. The meter on the left in Axe edit is the input. Set the input until you get -0.5 comp on input comp. Then move the threshold on the output side until you get 1.0 - 1.5 DB of compression, then crank that clarity knob until you get the pick attack you like 7 and higher. If you do this on a high gain amp try the gain enhancer instead of output comp. You might back the amp gain down a small amount if you use the gain enhancer.
Click to expand...
Too bad there’s not those options on the fm3.
But messing with gain enhancer might work.
 
jamesmarshall said:
Not.exactly.

In the dynamics tab there are 2 compression sides input and output. The meter on the left in Axe edit is the input. Set the input until you get -0.5 comp on input comp. Then move the threshold on the output side until you get 1.0 - 1.5 DB of compression, then crank that clarity knob until you get the pick attack you like 7 and higher. If you do this on a high gain amp try the gain enhancer instead of output comp. You might back the amp gain down a small amount if you use the gain enhancer.
Click to expand...
A bunch of very encouraging inputs already in this thread.

You had mentioned pick scratch in your original comment. That also definitely resonates with me. I got a lot of my tone inspiration and vibe from Chevelle and there is a lot of emphasis on the pick scratches in the plam mutes in Pete's stuff. I dial my Wizard's in a way that allows a lot of scratch and zing while not being bright or harsh, so this is also part of the goal.
 
Rex Rox said:
Its a great question. But you could also take a shortcut by picking an amp model that already provides all those things (like the Wrecked Express). I can't speak to your Wizards since I've never played one. But I do own a few expensive Boutique tube amps, and a couple vintage ones too. The Wrecked Express has the most realistic feel/dynamics to my ears/fingers (without requiring much if any tweaking). It's a favorite of mine in the Fractal Collection.

I'm not alone even the esteemed @austinbuddy agrees with me (see this post).

Either way I am sure your question will yield some great advice.
Click to expand...
For sure. My starting points in my tone quests were Rectos and Marks. I tried so hard to coax my desires out of them, going way down the rabbit holes of pre, loop, and post EQ then tried a Wizard and got so close I just gave up and happy as could be. But I fortunately did not let go of my Axe and I have needs to start using it exclusively at times, and it would definitely help to pick models that inherently have a head start. Can't recall my limited trials with the Wrecked Express a while back but will definitely give it a look and see where it might take me!
 
Randalljax said:
The Negative Feedback
The Cathode compression
The transformer Match
The SAG

First Wizard is based on hot rod Silver Jube so use that
For power tubes I might go KT88
Or 6550 preamp JJ

B+ TIME CONSTANT — Controls the rate of change in the power tube plate supply. Lower values give a bouncier feel, while higher values give a tighter feel.

I use these settings or variations which is from the Aerosmith gift of tone it biases the power section and runs it hotter

Preamp Bias Excursion: 5.0% Default: 100.0%

Power Amp Tab:

PI Bias Excursion: 126.0%
Power Tubes + CF Tab:power Tubes -> Bias Excursion: 104.0%
Click to expand...
Some great recommendations here. Regarding the Silver Jubilee, I was aware of it being the apparent staring point of the Wizard design. I never actually messed around with it because my tone journey started with Rectos, then Marks for a long time, then I found Wizards and never looked back. Now that I'm back to working in the Axe exclusively at times, I'm definitely planning on giving it a spin and toying around to see if I can find my thing with it. That said, I'm more addicted to the responsiveness and feel of the Wizard's probably more than the actual voice, so TBD if this might be the best starting point for me. But definitely worth the trial and a great recommendation. And thanks for the additional deep dive points!
 
Tiger1016 said:
A bunch of very encouraging inputs already in this thread.

You had mentioned pick scratch in your original comment. That also definitely resonates with me. I got a lot of my tone inspiration and vibe from Chevelle and there is a lot of emphasis on the pick scratches in the plam mutes in Pete's stuff. I dial my Wizard's in a way that allows a lot of scratch and zing while not being bright or harsh, so this is also part of the goal.
Click to expand...
If you like Chevelle, you should try the Recto IIC in the AX3. I use the Jp2c, because it can get that as well. Love Chevelle! Point Number 1 was great, even though they didn't like it. Vena Sera, LA Gargola, and Scfi Crimes are my faves of thiers. All thier tones are Mesa IIC or the IV. Use those and try my trick along with adding some of the "air" parameter in the cab block and tell me that isn't super close.
 
jamesmarshall said:
If you like Chevelle, you should try the Recto IIC in the AX3. I use the Jp2c, because it can get that as well. Love Chevelle! Point Number 1 was great, even though they didn't like it. Vena Sera, LA Gargola, and Scfi Crimes are my faves of thiers. All thier tones are Mesa IIC or the IV. Use those and try my trick along with adding some of the "air" parameter in the cab block and tell me that isn't super close.
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Hell yeah! The first time I heard Vitamin R was where I got hooked for life. That along with Wonder What's Next and The Clincher are THE tones that my soul has longed for forever. My first real amp was a Roadstster, followed by an Axe II exclusively using the Mark IV models, then a Mark V (wasn't a fan), then a IIC+, then onto the collection of 4 Wizards that I still have now.

Still have a love fest for the voice of Marks and Rectos, but the feel of the Wizards, even if i run them through a Suhr RL, IRs and FRFR, is what I've found inspires me even more. Hence the genesis of this post. I'm going to try to use the Axe III's deep edit magic to coax the Wizard feel along with the Mark voice to try to find my next utopia. I'm planning to try something out this weekend that I've been meaning to do for years, which is to run the IIC+ and IV preamp models from the Axe through the Wizard power amps, then RL and IR. Assuming it's a happy result, I'll then get into trying out all of the parameters recommended in this thread to try to coax a similar and maybe even more preferable feel out of the full amp model in the Axe and doing an A/B with the Wizard power amp until I can get it there.

I never jived with the JP2C. Seemed too mushy and bloated in the low end for my taste, but it is very possible that these deep edits might be able to tighten it up (without using a boost, which is also something that always seemed to ruin the opne and raw thing that I've been chasing) and make it a better starting platform for what I'm chasing. That's the beauty of all of the endless experimentation options that the Axe III provides.
 
Rex Rox said:
Its a great question. But you could also take a shortcut by picking an amp model that already provides all those things (like the Wrecked Express). I can't speak to your Wizards since I've never played one. But I do own a few expensive Boutique tube amps, and a couple vintage ones too. The Wrecked Express has the most realistic feel/dynamics to my ears/fingers (without requiring much if any tweaking). It's a favorite of mine in the Fractal Collection.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with you. Not only the Express for me though. I think all the Wreck type models are great. Ruby, Komets. Super responsive to guitar volume and playing dynamics, and the notes seem more pure to me. Whatever that is but that’s how I think of it.
 
skolacki said:
Have to agree with you. Not only the Express for me though. I think all the Wreck type models are great. Ruby, Komets. Super responsive to guitar volume and playing dynamics, and the notes seem more pure to me. Whatever that is but that’s how I think of it.
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Totally agree! Also pretty much everything Carol Ann too. I am loving the Triptik's and the Tucana for the same reasons. I'm still a newb but my favorite preset that I have created so far is a Triptick (clean) in amp1 block, with an Express in amp 2 block. Put both into one cab block with a 4x12 greenback of your choice. I tweak the Triptik some from default settings (drop gain and crank up master) but if memory serves the Express is pretty much default settings. Then I just toggle back and forth between the two depending on what I need. So versatile! Both great pedal platforms too!

I'm still refining the effect chain but when I get it nailed down I will post my preset in case anyone wants to try it out.
 
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