All effects - is one more effect impossible? Wrong approach?

[unix-guy]

I think that perhaps you are focused on how to do something rather than what you want to achieve…

Presets and scenes will cover everything you need to achieve without excess toe tapping… my fx switching is limited to the occasional delay or drive on/off

He wants to use it like a pedalboard. Instant access to any effect at any time.

Scenes don't address that.

We have to remember that my use case is not your use case and that is not the OP's use case.

Many do want to use it the same way. It's a valid scenario in my opinion.

But there are limits and you have to be crafty to work around some of them.

 

[Fretts]

Thank you for the input. I'm pretty clear about what I want to achieve; I'm having trouble achieving it within the way the FM9 works. What I actually want is an array of 12 effects immediately accessible, and very likely another 3 soon to come for a total of 15. So far, I have squeezed much of it out of 9 switches by having three switches do double duty via Hold functions to change FX channels or to invoke another effect entirely.

The band I currently use it with does not have a permanent setlist - each gig usually has a different selection of the songs we know, rarely the same ones or in the same order. What I actually need is to be able to get to any of my effects with a single stomp on a switch. I went through scenarios in the past that require "tapdancing" to get through to what I need; I want to leave that behind. If an FC expansion is the way to get there then I'll have to give that some serious thought. I'll also want to think about if that is better than building another pedalboard the old fashioned way, with a switcher. If I was part of an actual Show, with a nailed down tour setlist that did not change, it would be a no-brainer - Fractal all the way, without a doubt.

I honestly don't know which way this is going to go. I love many things about the FM9 and also about using pedals which I have about 120 of after all these years.

 

[blaggers]

^ used FC6 is your most obvious solution

 

[md1234]

I'm having trouble achieving it within the way the FM9 works. What I actually want is an array of 12 effects immediately accessible, and very likely another 3 soon to come for a total of 15.

It is not "the way the FM9 works", the problem is that this 9 button device simply does not match your 12-15 button requirement.

For instance: if you "sacrifice" one button to toggle between two layouts you have instant access to 16 single press effectbuttons. With a pedalboard you need to reach far or need to walk to get to an pedal. Lay-out switching (only when needed, but put the most used effects on the same layout) is definitely faster. Did you look in customized layouts enough? The answer is in there in my opinion. (I toggle between 3 layouts of 6 effects).

 

[GiRa]

I went through a somewhat similar process when I started with modeling many moons ago. I needed to be ready for improvising during songs, for different setlists, and to be in different bands. What made my life much easier was using one preset per song (you probably don't need a death metal distortion in an funk song) and using actual colored labels on my pedalboard. The latter is probably not needed anymore with the FM and FC products.

 

[Fretts]

... With a pedalboard you need to reach far or need to walk to get to an pedal. Lay-out switching (only when needed, but put the most used effects on the same layout) is definitely faster. Did you look in customized layouts enough? The answer is in there in my opinion. (I toggle between 3 layouts of 6 effects).

I have looked at that and it departs from the two-dimensional layout I really want. Like I was saying - if I was in a locked-down touring show that played the same set every night, I could certainly memorize the moves I need to make between song #11 and song #12 for example; the multiple layers and layouts of the FM9 would be ideal. I'm not in that situation. Mine is much more fluid and changing. My last stop on the physical pedalboard journey was using 11 pedals with the GigRig G2 switcher which is very sophisticated. It can switch any number of effects in or out on a per-preset basis and is very straightforward to program. But the whole setup is cumbersome and requires a fairly large board. With everything downsizing, and also, the size of the clubs and their stages that I have been working in, I really need to keep things small and light now. Even though it would add unwanted size and another external cable (which always make me nervous), adding a FC6 might be the actual solution.

 

[Fretts]

It is not "the way the FM9 works", the problem is that this 9 button device simply does not match your 12-15 button requirement...

That's exactly right and I even said that same thing. This has turned into quite a long thread so you probably didn't see it back there, but that is my problem in a nutshell. It doesn't match my 12-14 button requirement. An FC6 probably would do it for a nice round 15-button arrangement. I am looking into how I might finance one, coming so close on the heels of buying the FM9. This stuff adds up fast!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

If I was trying to get 15 effects, I’d take both Effects layouts and the Looper layout and reconfigure them as three sets of effects “banks” of 5 switches each with an unallocated/unused switch 6. Switches 7 and 9 would be navigation to previous and next banks and tap-tempo and tuning on switch 8’s tap and hold functions respectively.

Switch 6 in each layout could be used as a wildcard Per-Preset Override for a total of 3 per preset, or hardwire them for 18 effects or CS for amp control or whatever.

The MLM will be necessary to get out of those layouts using the standard combination of the 6+9 switches.

Note that the FM9 actually supports 12 switches per layout but they’re divided into 9 on one view and 3 on the next, and navigating between them will sacrifice a switch in each view. Because of that I don’t go there but YMMV.

 

[Moke]

One possibility to get back a few switches is to take any effects that you might always turn on and/or off together as a group.

Example..

• Drive 1 (on), Comp 1 (off), Delay 1 (on), Post amp Filter block 1 (on) with a volume and mid bump for solos.
• Attach their bypass controls to a single Control Switch with a custom name, to have them turn on and/or off as a group, in any combination needed.

Adopt a Scene/Stomp box hybrid setup.

• Toggle two scenes for two different rigs on one switch. Channel 'A' of every block in scene #1, and channel 'B' in scene #1
• Scene 1 Amp 1 (Fender), with all of the appropriate channels of Drives, Compressors, Modulation effects, Solo boost Filter, etc.. Waiting for you to manually turn whatever on and off.
• Scene 2 Amp 2 (Marshall), with all of the appropriate channels of Drives, Compressors, Modulation effects, Solo boost Filter, etc.. Waiting for you to manually turn whatever on and off.
• Some combination of 'Scene Ignore' and/or 'Scene Revert' settings to keep you where you want to be when switching scenes.

Or separate presets for each 'rig' with only what you actually need for that particular 'rig'.

Maybe you just never really know what you might need and what every possibility ready to go. That seems way harder to manage to me than a specific preset for every song. With only what is needed for that song. Setup as scenes, and placed in the same convention every time. But my work flow and musical situation is different than yours.

 

[Fretts]

...Maybe you just never really know what you might need and what every possibility ready to go. That seems way harder to manage to me than a specific preset for every song. With only what is needed for that song. Setup as scenes, and placed in the same convention every time. But my work flow and musical situation is different than yours.

It is different. By this time, I am kind of used to not often knowing what I'll need in advance. Most often, when I do use effects together, they get added during the course of a song, not all in a bunch at once. When I had my old pedalboard, I had a comp and a drive first, then a bypass switch that went to either the board, or straight to amp. I could stage a single or multi-effect sound on the board and just play through the first two pedals until I needed that other sound and then the bypass switch would bring it all in at once and off at once. The bypass switch was in the most convenient location, so it didn't matter if the effects I wanted later were in awkward locations.

I have received several very clear and well-thought-out solutions that involve switching scenes, or layouts or extending the view with a switch -- all of which... miss the mark because it's just a form of housekeeping / procedural moves I really want to avoid as much as absolutely possible.

God, I kind of miss the days of plugging a Les Paul into a half-stack and letting it rip with just two sounds: turned down, and wide open.
But it's not enough anymore.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

God, I kind of miss the days of plugging a Les Paul into a half-stack and letting it rip with just two sounds: turned down, and wide open.
But it's not enough anymore.

95% of the time I treat my modelers as single channel amps with a few effects, and the “crunch” scene goes from clean to scream with the volume knob, picking strength, and the gain caused by the speaker hitting the strings.

The ODS-100 preset on the Ford scene is killer at volume.

I have “flavors” of presets, Eric Johnson is an example that will give me his cleans with chorus, and his thick lead sounds, and I can switch in delay or wah to push it to his Hendrix sound. There are scenes to take me instantly to the base tone, then I turn on whichever effects I want to add separately.

A lot of my presets have a flanger to do the Hendrix slow flanger sound that is for short turnarounds.

This system is incredibly flexible but it takes time to learn how to really bend it to your will.

 

[unix-guy]

So @Fretts... I guess I'll ask the obvious question in all seriousness (please believe it's not intended to be snarky): did you not realize 9 switches wouldn't be enough for your needs when you bought the FM9?

I'm wondering if you're kind of "going wild" after receiving it and seeing what is capable of?

Another thing I was wondering: on your previous pedalboard, how many effects did you use?

Are there cases where maybe you're picking one of several Drives, or several Delays, etc?

In that case, you might be able to use 1 switch to toggle between channels of a block rather than turn different ones on and off (and combine channel select with Smart Bypass).

 

[md1234]

That's exactly right and I even said that same thing. This has turned into quite a long thread so you probably didn't see it back there, but that is my problem in a nutshell. It doesn't match my 12-14 button requirement. An FC6 probably would do it for a nice round 15-button arrangement. I am looking into how I might finance one, coming so close on the heels of buying the FM9. This stuff adds up fast!

I have read it all and it felt like you're blaming the FM9 for having 9 buttons... If you think the extra 6 are the solution, go for it. All forementioned solutions are still usable then.

And an idea: you might want to add stickers like these or make something yourself, if that works better for you (visual recognition) than the minidisplays. I am not sure if those fit the FMx/FCx, but other members can chime in on that: https://images.app.goo.gl/B3zZsnH6JJvJSCG49

 

[empinchen]

I might be stating the obvious here, but you do not necessarily need an FC6. Any MIDI switcher with six buttons (e.g. Morningstar MC6) could do.

 

[blaggers]

I might be stating the obvious here, but you do not necessarily need an FC6. Any MIDI switcher with six buttons (e.g. Morningstar MC6) could do.

Not if you want to keep them in sync ie you switch a MC6 effect switch "on" then change preset on FM9 - the MC6 shows effect is "on" when it isnt.

 

[Cam Heiliger]

If you’re dead set on having all switches toggle effects then an FC6 is your only solution to get you to the required 15 switches. There are plenty of creative ways to get you where you need to go, but if you’re unwilling to explore them then that is your only option.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

You can definitely do this with the right layout on the Fm9. I do this using the Fm9 along with an FC-12. Seems like overkill. I guess I like overkill. I have the Fm9 load up with the scenes layout and the FC-12 load up with the effects layout. I use the OCD quad to switch the FC-12 between the presets, scenes, or master layout in a pinch. Works great for me. This can all be done with just the Fm9, but I don't like to have to constantly be tap dancing through layouts.

 

[Hellbat]

I know you are hesitant to go the route because of the extra expense with the FC controllers, but the way the Fractal gear works together as an integrated system can't be understated. And if you are only using one additional FC, all you need to connect the two devices is a single XLR cable. If you keep them close to each other you can easily get away with a 3 foot-er.

I approach cover gigs a different way than you do though. Neither way is wrong, they are just different approaches. I originally used a preset per song approach back in the Axe FX II days but as you know, setlists and song order can be very fluid in a cover band situation. There were a few too many instances of me hunting for the preset and coming in a bar or two late for my comfort so I switched it up to using 3 basic presets (clean/crunchy/heavy) that gave me an easy 'base' sound and then effects were switched in and out on the base for individual songs situations. I use scenes heavily for switching in and out of lead tones or stunt sounds quickly.

It gets pretty quick to switch in and out sounds for different songs when you are only using 3 presets and 3-4 scenes per preset. It also lets muscle memory kick in when you use a system for each of the presets like - scene 1 base (typically clean to eob) sound, scene 2 like 1 but with added balls, scene 3 effects, scene 4 lead. Combine that with channels on the effects and you can string together radically different tones with a minimum of dancing. For songs that required extra effects or stunt sounds, I'll throw that in as an extra preset. For example, I set up an intro for a song using M@'s Blade Runner preset that went over very well.) But most shows, I got by with 3 or less presets typically using 2-4 scenes per preset. That said we played mostly pop songs not prog epics.

I guess that TLDR of the above ramble is:

Don't fear using an FC-6 or FC-12 with your FM-9. It just works and the extra setup time for the second bit of kit is really negligible due to the simple one cable plug and done method Fractal has implemented. If you absolutely need the switches, it's the best solution. Otherwise you need to do some dancing or change your methodology.

The thing I worry about for you is if you get an FC-6 and suddenly you add a song to your setlist and need a 16th switch...

 

[Fretts]

You can definitely do this with the right layout on the Fm9. I do this using the Fm9 along with an FC-12. Seems like overkill. I guess I like overkill. I have the Fm9 load up with the scenes layout and the FC-12 load up with the effects layout. I use the OCD quad to switch the FC-12 between the presets, scenes, or master layout in a pinch. Works great for me. This can all be done with just the Fm9, but I don't like to have to constantly be tap dancing through layouts.

Now here is man after my own heart! At least somebody here is on my same page!

 

[Fretts]

I have read it all and it felt like you're blaming the FM9 for having 9 buttons... If you think the extra 6 are the solution, go for it. All forementioned solutions are still usable then.

And an idea: you might want to add stickers like these or make something yourself, if that works better for you (visual recognition) than the minidisplays. I am not sure if those fit the FMx/FCx, but other members can chime in on that: https://images.app.goo.gl/B3zZsnH6JJvJSCG49

Not really blaming, more coming up against the disconnect between expectation and reality. Never liked, wanted, or used a modeler until I looked into how far the Fractal system has advanced the art. Being completely new to the modeling environment, I had no idea how it was implemented.

The stickers idea is great. I have used console tape in the past and drawn large symbols over the buttons of my switchers I have used, like a big asterisk for fuzz, two wavy lines for chorus, etc.