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adjusting tone in a band mix

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Discussion' started by boblazz, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. boblazz

    boblazz
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    i always have this problem where i get this killer tone i dial in at home , when i play with the band i get buried in the mix. is there any tricks anyone uses like when you find your sound always cut the bass or add some treble,presence or mids? mostly this happens with this rock band. i also do a jazz rock instrumental thing where i have no problem cutting through.
     
  2. craiguitar

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    Yes, we've all experienced it. That Killer tone has exaggerated lows and highs, and fools you into thinking it's great. In reality, it no longer occupies the midrange frequencies that sit in a live mix. Your presets need to be uglier in isolation in order to cut through. After a while and with some trial & error, it's possible to develop a knack for knowing what's going to cut and what will essentially just fall off the end of the stage and be heard by nobody.
     
  3. #3 Zwiebelchen, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
    Zwiebelchen

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    I'll just shamelessly quote myself here, because this is very similar to the problem described in the other thread:

     
  4. dpeterson

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    Let the bass do what it does, bass, loose some of the low end, and use a highcut in the cab block to cut above like 6-8k (helps at volume).
     
  5. Genome

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    Good suggestions but I don't see how you can make specific EQ suggestions outside of the low/hi-end roll offs. Every tone is different and occupies/exaggerates/is deficient in various frequencies.

    It's good to know the fundamental ranges and tweak according to your own source material.
     
  6. boblazz

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    sounds like some good advise zwiebelchen and i will try some suggestions. the only thing is that it is not the room or loud drummer. we are using in-ear system so the room is not a problem.
     
  7. barhrecords

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    It's all about boosting midrange.

    That is why drive / fuzz / treble booster pedals are so popular. Kick it in and there is a strong mid boost and sometimes a low cut too.

    Try changing the amp block GEQ type to 3 band console and goose the mids. That EQ is very musical to my ears.
     
    Wolfenstein98k likes this.
  8. strat714

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    ^THIS^
     
  9. luke

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    You know that annoying TS-9 into a Marshall feeding Vintage 30s tone you hate? There is a reason thousands of records utilize that gear together, and you may just stumbled upon it.
     
  10. Wolfenstein98k

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    Less lows (and basically no extreme lows), less highs, more mids. If it sounds boxy or middy and a tiny bit gutless in isolation, it usually sounds WAY better in a live mix.
     
  11. d2dark

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    like Like say, a JCM800 into a greenback loaded cab with flat EQ IS the prefect example of a cutting in the mix guitar, give that a try. a regular 800 into the Marshall greenback loaded cab with an overdrive in front if you need more drive. that will work 200%.
    that's the sonic space a guitar should have in a mix.
     
  12. FractalAudio

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    Resist the temptation to add bass and treble. The amp designers knew what they were doing (well most of them). If you are applying heavy EQ then you will be disappointed at gig volumes. What sounds midrangey and bland at low volumes will sound great at high volumes.

    Do some research on Fletcher-Munson to understand this.
     
    Galen Cane, soheil, d2dark and 2 others like this.
  13. pharmd07

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    What about when recording?

    I totally get what you guys are saying about live sound and that more midrangey tones sound better in a band mix. Makes perfect sense when talking about Fletcher-Munson.

    I find that darker IRs sound too muddy at lower volumes when I'm recording. Thus I tend to like brighter IRs.

    Is it a reasonable strategy to use your recording tone live by using high and low pass filters in the cab block? This would result in a more midrage focused sound that would be useful in a live band mix, right?
     
  14. barhrecords

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    I prefer to track with a more neutral tone and carve it up in post in the DAW.

    This allows me more options to fit the tracks together.

    Locking in a high pass / low pass / mid boost leaves you fewer options but can work. I've seen lots of people work this way. BUT they know exactly how all the tracks are going to fit ahead of time. So printing with EQ speeds up the process.
     
  15. ChrisCG

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    I have found that a patch that just amazing alone will have too much low end. I use a few tricks but one that I really had a big impact was scotts trick of a PEQ block right In front of the amp. Cut I think it's 300 -6db. I think I cut at -4.5db and that works best for my Strat. Also mentioned above cuts in the cab block I do 80 for the low and depending on the amp any where from 7k to 12k on the highs. If you need to you can add some lows back in but when I do that I do it with the preamp in the cab block.
     
  16. Pinkycramps

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    Very good post. Solid info in here.
    It's so true that live/gig patches end up sounding awful on their own. It's really amazing. You spend time trying to build/match a certain tone, but it's all a lie. It won't work live. I still haven't figured out how to translate a great matched tone to come out that way live. I can get a tone that cuts, and that works. What I struggle with is getting a specific type of tone to translate live. I have settled on just a few that work well for me.
     
  17. d2dark

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    you have to add your bandmate tone in the equation when you build tone, if your bass player is working against you eq wise. you can waist a lot of time eqing for nothing.
    leave the lows part of the spectrum to bass, focus your tone around 160 and up.
    think that vocal happen between 1-2K.
    over 9k, there is not much space for a guitar tone over Cymbales and higher harmonics.
     
  18. boblazz

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    thanks all. some great info here. its just so hard to give up that tone that sounds so good alone or playing with tracks on the computer. i will have to just move forward with these suggestions and keep tweaking.
     
  19. Hotplate

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    Make presets specifically for playing live w/ your band vs. presets for at home/low volume/headphone, etc. use. I use a template and adjust the amp/cab/geq/peq's between these two scenarios. I tend to dial in tones at any volume that are towards being band mix friendly because I learned to do things that way early on w/ tube amps/FX. Less bass and more mids and treble typically..
     
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  20. mongey

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    basically if it sounds good at home it probably won't sound good in the mix as is and standing in front of a blaring drummer you won't hear it . the higher the gain the more pronounced the difference IMHO



    but after a while you can dial in live tones at home when you know what won't work
     
    tallcoolone and pjrake like this.

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