Adjust the Tube Driver 4 Knob

[iaresee]

Hey! I tried and tried again, with different cleans (Fender, Hiwatt) but both with the Drive low, and when it is high, the distortion is engorged and a lot of fuzz.
Particularly if I use the neck pickup, it's just flooded, closed and there's a lot of hum noise.
Therefore, after reading that the FAS also has the Chandler, it might be a good idea to swap the model with the Chandler, as everyone uses the 3 knob because the 4 knob is unusable.

Maybe post a preset so we can offer better advice here?

 

[marc0810]

Hi
You have great kwowledge on Gilmour tone ,
Do you know how to recreate the sound of sorrow , comfortably from Delicate sound of Thunder , so far my favpurite era ....
Thanks

For that era, he was using a strat loaded with EMG’s and depending on which version you hear, it could have been some Mesa preamps acting as distortion into clean Fenders, though later in the tour I think he switched back to the Hiwatt. @Moke has a great preset on his website for that album.

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

Maybe post a preset so we can offer better advice here?

if needed, place the preset ok. But I've tried several times to create new presets from scratch and the problem with any Clean Amp is always the same.
After several tests I think my problem is related to the distortion of the pedal, not the EQ.
It practically has no dynamics. While it's actually a dynamically rich pedal, that's why Gilmour uses it.

 

[iaresee]

if needed, place the preset ok. But I've tried several times to create new presets from scratch and the problem with any Clean Amp is always the same.
After several tests I think my problem is related to the distortion of the pedal, not the EQ.
It practically has no dynamics. While it's actually a dynamically rich pedal, that's why Gilmour uses it.

Again, preset. And a note about the guitars you're using with the preset. You'll get much better advice if you do this.

 

[moshwitz]

And Maybe a clip too so we all can hear what you are hearing

MOSHON
DAVE

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

Again, preset. And a note about the guitars you're using with the preset. You'll get much better advice if you do this.

tomorrow I will post the preset

 

[Bodde]

What makes the 3 knob so different from the 4 knob? Can’t you just use the 3 knob version in the Axe and match it with a 4 knob real pedal?

I had the real 4 knob new Butler pedal for a year. I agree that the bass and treble was pretty useless to me so I put them both at zero. To me that was to key to make the pedal sound good. Also I used very little drive. It doesn’t sound like other drive pedals but when you dial it in right it sounds pretty good. But the pedal is very expensive and big and heavy and it needed it’s own cable. Not very practical and that’s why I sold it.

I haven’t dived in much on the Axe 4 knob model but I agree with you that it doesn’t do a spot on version of the real model when I compared them side to side. Maybe they could revise the model in the future.

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

What makes the 3 knob so different from the 4 knob? Can’t you just use the 3 knob version in the Axe and match it with a 4 knob real pedal?

I had the real 4 knob new Butler pedal for a year. I agree that the bass and treble was pretty useless to me so I put them both at zero. To me that was to key to make the pedal sound good. Also I used very little drive. It doesn’t sound like other drive pedals but when you dial it in right it sounds pretty good. But the pedal is very expensive and big and heavy and it needed it’s own cable. Not very practical and that’s why I sold it.

I haven’t dived in much on the Axe 4 knob model but I agree with you that it doesn’t do a spot on version of the real model when I compared them side to side. Maybe they could revise the model in the future.

the 3 knob sounds divinely, in fact, like many other users, we use that instead of the 4 knob.
They are very similar pedals but the use of Bass and Treble for me is fundamental for this pedal. The Butler and the Chandler are in between the same pedal but the EQ works in different ways and the distortion on the Chandler is much more dynamic and easily manageable.
What I am saying is that it is a pity that the 4 knob model is complex and problematic on the gain. For this in my opinion it would be much better to have the Chandler model which is easier to manage.
Now place a preset as they asked me.

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

Again, preset. And a note about the guitars you're using with the preset. You'll get much better advice if you do this.

Here is the preset.
I have a Fender Stratocaster CAR with the EMG DG20 Active Pickups
I created a very simple preset, just to tune everything on the 4 knob TD. Channel B of the Drive Block is the Tube Drv 3 knob, just to make you feel the difference between the two. Yes, they are different pedals but the key feature of the Butler / Chandler-Butler / Chandler is that it is a dynamic and transparent pedal. Very similar to the distortion of a JTM45.
The problem is especially noticeable on the neck pickup. I tried the preset of course before posting it and I keep hearing the "problem"
Going from 4 knob to 3 knob, you can clearly hear that the 4 knob is closed, engulfed, not dynamic and does not have the characteristics like the 3 knob or the Chandler 4 knob or even the real Butler itself, similar to a JTM45 or similar distortions . I had and tried the Butler comparing it to the others and the difference was in the EQ of the pedal. On the highs and lows, not in the distortion. Being a Gilmour fan like many in this forum, I tried to set the 4 knob as it was set by Gilmour and the distortion is completely different, while using the 3 knob, setting the distortion as recommended by the KItRae page, the distortion matches perfectly .

 

[is9582]

http://www.kitrae.net/music/Music_mp3_Tube_Driver_Versions.html
Try this address

http://www.kitrae.net/music/Music_mp3_Tube_Driver_Sound.html
And this

Perfect! Thanks again.

Lee

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

The pedal attack is not as defined as it should in my opinion. Especially if you use it on the neck pickup.
The Tube Driver begins to have fuzz distortion when the drive is set high. While setting it with the drive to 2 or 4 for example, the pedal should stay clean at the attack.
While the 3 knob acts like a Chandler or a real Butler. Well defined attack, very dynamic.
That's why everyone prefers it to the 4 knob.

 

[Piing]

The pedal attack is not as defined as it should in my opinion. Especially if you use it on the neck pickup.
The Tube Driver begins to have fuzz distortion when the drive is set high. While setting it with the drive to 2 or 4 for example, the pedal should stay clean at the attack.
While the 3 knob acts like a Chandler or a real Butler. Well defined attack, very dynamic.
That's why everyone prefers it to the 4 knob.

I've tried your preset (Fender Fat '50 neck / Seymour Duncan SSL-5 bridge) and the result is similar to what you describe: the 3-knob is dynamic and open while the 4-knob is dark and dull.

I've never played with the original pedals, though. So I don't know how it is supposed to be

 

[Giulio Scarpellini]

I've tried your preset (Fender Fat '50 neck / Seymour Duncan SSL-5 bridge) and the result is similar to what you describe: the 3-knob is dynamic and open while the 4-knob is dark and dull.

I've never played with the original pedals, though. So I don't know how it is supposed to be

That's right, just what happens to me.
It is not easy to explain. The 4 knob model is the Butler and you can hear it. The only problem it has is the attack, it is too closed, at any setting. The attack on the various Tube Drivers is sharp and defined, especially with low distortion. On the other hand, the 3 knob also with distortion at 9, has the typical attack of the Tube Driver.
The differences between the Butler model and the Chandler models are two.
The gain, which on the Butler is higher and how the EQ works.
But the pedal is almost identical. In this video you hear this.
They are identical but the Butler has a little more gain and is fuller in the low frequencies.
But the attack is identical.

 

[yyz67]

@Giulio Scarpellini

I modified your preset and can get the gain of the Tube Drive 4-Knob drive down by setting drive to 1 and reducing the input signal with a filter in front of it. A filter after the drive block boosts the output again. I have the level of each FIL tied to expression pedal 1. In the low position the gain is low and in the high position it's moderate. Thus while FIL 1 cuts FIL 2 boost and vice-versa. Works for scene 2 (4-knob) and scene 3 (3-knob).

If you have an expression pedal, plug it into EXP 1 (calibrate) and play with the sweep. See if that gets you in the ball park. (If so, a new Input Trim parameter in the drive block might do the trick easier than using filter blocks.)

 

[trancegodz]

To match my Chandler with both tone knobs set to 0, I set the 4 knob Tube Driver in the Axe FXIII with gain =2, bass =0, treble=6, mids boosted by 3db at 636.0Hz, graphic eq set to post 1000 Hz boosted 2db, volume at 6. That pretty much exactly matches my 1986 Chandler set with both tone controls on 0 (which is how Eric Johnson uses his Chandler Tube Driver).

It sounds really good when set right, you just can't set the settings the same as you would on a real Chandler and expect it to sound the same. That was what through me when I first tried it.

 

[ak301]

Hi
You have great kwowledge on Gilmour tone ,
Do you know how to recreate the sound of sorrow , comfortably from Delicate sound of Thunder , so far my favpurite era ....
Thanks

On the recording on Momentary Lapse he played a Steinberger with EMG single coils through a Big Muff into a Fender Super Champ, they then played the audio through the quad PA at an arena in LA to get the huge reverb

On A Delicate Sound of Thunder it's the red strat with EMGs and the built-in mid range SPX booster, through whichever Big Muff he had, maybe the one Pete Cornish built him with a Tube Driver. If I remember he used JCM800 Marshalls on that tour into Cabs with Fane Crescendo speakers.

This is off of the top of my head.
There's a website called Gilmouish.Com that's full of facts on DGs gear

 

[Piing]

On A Delicate Sound of Thunder it's the red strat with EMGs and the built-in mid range SPX booster, through whichever Big Muff he had, maybe the one Pete Cornish built him with a Tube Driver. If I remember he used JCM800 Marshalls on that tour into Cabs with Fane Crescendo speakers.

The WEM Super Starfinder 200 cab with 4×12” Fane Crescendo speaker IR is the missing link. I've tried all similar IRs without good results

I made a request to the IR manufacturers a long time ago
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wish-wem-super-starfinder-200-cab-with-4×12”-fane-crescendo-speakers-ir.60888/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...s-would-like-to-hunt-down.138589/post-1643441

 

[rickster71]

I think you might just need to see if Mr Gilmour would be willing to send his entire rig to Cliff to model each and every aspect of it in one shot

The Caption Coconut effects of Gilmour's would be awesome to have except his is the rack mount version .

 

[iaresee]

The WEM Super Starfinder 200 cab with 4×12” Fane Crescendo speaker IR is the missing link. I've tried all similar IRs without good results

I made a request to the IR manufacturers a long time ago
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wish-wem-super-starfinder-200-cab-with-4×12”-fane-crescendo-speakers-ir.60888/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...s-would-like-to-hunt-down.138589/post-1643441

https://www.theampfactory.com/downloads/theampfactory-the-legends-ultrares-irs/

Cabs included:1×12 Blackshadow*, 1×12 RockDriverCream*, 1×12 Vintage Marshall*(G12M), 2×10 Fender* (Jenson), 2×12 Artisan* (GH12), 2×12 OrangeJimRoot* (V30), 2×12 Vox (Blues), 4×12 Hiwatt (Fane), 4×12 Marshall* (G12T), 4×12 Marshall Basketweave*(Pre-Rola G12), 4×12 Orange Matamp* (CV30), 4×12 Wem Starfinder* (Custom Fane)

 

[Piing]

https://www.theampfactory.com/downloads/theampfactory-the-legends-ultrares-irs/

Cabs included:1×12 Blackshadow*, 1×12 RockDriverCream*, 1×12 Vintage Marshall*(G12M), 2×10 Fender* (Jenson), 2×12 Artisan* (GH12), 2×12 OrangeJimRoot* (V30), 2×12 Vox (Blues), 4×12 Hiwatt (Fane), 4×12 Marshall* (G12T), 4×12 Marshall Basketweave*(Pre-Rola G12), 4×12 Orange Matamp* (CV30), 4×12 Wem Starfinder* (Custom Fane)

I purchased these a longtime ago. The Hiwatt fane and the Wem Starfinder are quite thin and liveless