AC30 Amp Match with Clips, Pics and Presets

Interesting...

Trazan said:
It's not the noise, it's the character. AFX has an "Orban"-like attack to it...hard to describe. Orban is a multiband-compressor thingy used in broadcast.
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Trazan,

It's interesting that you mentioned "multiband-compression," because the only way I can describe what I hear as different (and it's rather slight anyways, since i think year2525 did an EXCELLENT job with this!) is that on the 2nd-part of the riff-clip (Vox-amp?!?) the low-end "thump" and the very high-end "sheen/presence" sounds more open (or less compressed if you will.) In fact, one could probably make the 2nd-half of the riff-clip sound more like the 1st-half of the riff-clip with a specific multiband-compressor (approx: fast-attack; subtle-ratio; appropriate-threshholds for low-band <80Hz-250Hz> & high-band <8K-16K>.) I wouldn't actually WANT to do this, since the idea (in most cases) is to get the modeller to sound just like the amp, NOT "the-other-way-around" - LOL! I digress...

Bottom-Line: year2525 has done an EXCELLENT JOB of tone-matching his Vox AC30TB amp, and I LOVE his idea about capturing it at various gain-points! (My bassist and I were talking about that very idea just recently!) It makes for more work, but it seems to make sense...

...BTW, if year2525 pulled a Cliff and said "Gotcha" the Axe-FX II is actually the 2nd-half of the clip(s) (to prove a point!) Then I would still stand by my description of what I thought it sounded like (and I know I could easily be fooled, since I think the amp & the tone-matched preset sound VERY SIMILAR here anyways!)

Bill
 
Gasp100 said:
Wow, VERY cool and very detailed testing/explanation. Can you expound on this a bit?

So are you saying that playing the newly created patches / tone matches AND using the IR capture (cab block) through ??? <FRFR? Studio Monitors???> vs. playing through the live amp rig it sounds very close?
And then using AxeFX II with cab sims off into power amp + the actual cab it's dead on?
The reason I ask is because I'm debating as to whether I am ready to try full blown FRFR again now that people are doing high quality IR captures of great cabs/speakers and doing amazing stuff with Tone Matching. I play at very moderate volumes and although I love my matrix loaded cab, I'm starting to miss the detail and ease of use of one patch/path for all monitoring sources: headphones, nearfield monitors, FRFR.
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We basically compared the amps through two different setups:

1. Both amps with (and without) Axe Cab IRs into active monitors (HS80Ms and Focal Twins).

2. Both amps (no Axe Cabs) through SS power amp into the VOX Cab.

Additionally, Axe preamp (supply sag = off) and real preamp only into amps effects return.

While all of these 1 on 1 comparisons themselves sounded very similar, at this point it does make a difference to me whether to play through monitors or a real cab.
The first and main reason for this IMO may be that they're standing in different positions and the sound is spread differently by the speakers.
That's my humble opinion on this and I've yet to play FRFR in a live situation.
 
year2525 said:
While all of these 1 on 1 comparisons themselves sounded very similar, at this point it does make a difference to me whether to play through monitors or a real cab.
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And it always will...it's the physical part, the part that push that air around. Simulation of a recording of a cabinet/amp will, in the end(!), be indistinguishable as they end up being played through the same physical structure. An open backed guitar cabinet is to a large extent omnidirectional, and its behaviour is obviously impossible to recreate through these FRFR thingys. Just as a recording of any other instrument won't sound the same as listening to the instrument itself.
 
@OP: These are great. I enjoyed these enough to reply, which I told myself I would resist doing with anything tone match. These are impressive, and for an "on tape" sound, I would use these any day of the week. Kudos, well done. :D

Trazan said:
Easiest to recognize the AXF when playing the riff. I'm 97.4% sure the last part of the riff snippet is the AC30. Or that the first part is the AXF, if you prefer 8)
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It was the attack that made it stand out for me. I was hoping "the reveal" had not happened yet...
Trazan said:
It's not the noise, it's the character. AFX has an "Orban"-like attack to it...hard to describe. Orban is a multiband-compressor thingy used in broadcast.

Yeah, the chords sound very similar. Not that easy to tell from just strummin' some chords though, and the gain was a bit different between the two.
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Ah.. "the reveal." :( But..
This is the first time someone else has provided an example that made me scream, "Yes!!! Someone else hears it! Finally!" I want to put a picture of this on my wall, just so I can always know I am not alone. I already knew I was crazy though ;)

Trazan said:
And it always will...it's the physical part, the part that push that air around. Simulation of a recording of a cabinet/amp will, in the end(!), be indistinguishable as they end up being played through the same physical structure. An open backed guitar cabinet is to a large extent omnidirectional, and its behaviour is obviously impossible to recreate through these FRFR thingys. Just as a recording of any other instrument won't sound the same as listening to the instrument itself.
Click to expand...
And this is what drove me back to "real amps." "On tape," things are.. manageable. It is while playing in the same room with the amp that I could not "let go" of an experience that is so familiar and comfortable for me. All of you who revel in the Axe's amps have NO idea how incredibly, incredibly envious of you I am. Honestly.
 
Dear OP,

That IR you shared is golden. Many thanks and *much* gratitude to you for creating and sharing.
 
billmeedog said:
Trazan,

It's interesting that you mentioned "multiband-compression," because the only way I can describe what I hear as different (and it's rather slight anyways, since i think year2525 did an EXCELLENT job with this!) is that on the 2nd-part of the riff-clip (Vox-amp?!?) the low-end "thump" and the very high-end "sheen/presence" sounds more open (or less compressed if you will.) In fact, one could probably make the 2nd-half of the riff-clip sound more like the 1st-half of the riff-clip with a specific multiband-compressor (approx: fast-attack; subtle-ratio; appropriate-threshholds for low-band <80Hz-250Hz> & high-band <8K-16K>.) I wouldn't actually WANT to do this, since the idea (in most cases) is to get the modeller to sound just like the amp, NOT "the-other-way-around" - LOL! I digress...

Bottom-Line: year2525 has done an EXCELLENT JOB of tone-matching his Vox AC30TB amp, and I LOVE his idea about capturing it at various gain-points! (My bassist and I were talking about that very idea just recently!) It makes for more work, but it seems to make sense...

...BTW, if year2525 pulled a Cliff and said "Gotcha" the Axe-FX II is actually the 2nd-half of the clip(s) (to prove a point!) Then I would still stand by my description of what I thought it sounded like (and I know I could easily be fooled, since I think the amp & the tone-matched preset sound VERY SIMILAR here anyways!)

Bill
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Hi Bill, thanks a lot!
The "low end thump" was definately an issue, but I think (in this case) the high frequency noise might be mistaken for "high end sheen".
Then again, if that noise adds to the harmonics in a way that it complements them, it in fact could be that high end sheen.

I've had a closer look also to the audio file you are referring to and there is something going on in the low end that the Axe won't do (by simply tonematching).
I'll post some graphs later on.

Yes, there's no pull-off or anything, in the riff the Axe is definately second (the other clips may differ, though).
But I'll be trying to improve the presets so that you guys (hopefully) will be lost in guessing. :D

nikki-k said:
@OP: These are great. I enjoyed these enough to reply, which I told myself I would resist doing with anything tone match. These are impressive, and for an "on tape" sound, I would use these any day of the week. Kudos, well done.
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Thanks! Well, good for me then!
By "on tape", do you mean in a recording or when actually recording on tape, because it would fatten things up enough?

Also, the attack compression thing you guys mention, been thinking about that.
Maybe there's a way to get around it.
 
Great work. Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough in documenting what you did. Nice example of a great amp.
 
year2525 said:
Thanks! Well, good for me then!
By "on tape", do you mean in a recording or when actually recording on tape, because it would fatten things up enough?
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Sorry, I used "on tape" in quotes as catch-all terminology for any recording medium (digital, tape). I have never found a recording to adequately represent what one hears "in the room," with the musicians/gear/etc. IMO, the only thing a recording can ever provide is an example of how something might sound.. "on tape." The "in the room" or interactive aspect will typically differ, sometimes in unexpected ways. Despite the "attack" issue, your recordings provide a very convincing AC30 type recording. Beautiful.

year2525 said:
Also, the attack compression thing you guys mention, been thinking about that.
Maybe there's a way to get around it.
Click to expand...
I found no way while using the front input. IMO, it is an inherent aspect of the *method* in use. Beyond that... I was already escorted from the podium; I will leave further explorations and debate to others (I have moved on, and am quite happy where I am now :D).
 
sinasl1 said:
did that. any other ideas?
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re-download? perhaps corrupt? On my device, it works like a charm, did that:

1) download presets & cab ir
2) load preset (any) into the axe: hear sound w/o cab (cab is mutet & User 27 on default!)
3) load yeayears cab ir in my cab user slot 1
4) In the preset: select in cab block user Cab 1 (-> now the GSH12 V30 from yearyear)
5) Activate CAB-Block

... here we go ....

@yearyear: sounds fantastic! Now i can show all my friends the pictures of your amp and tell them, that i own them ;) ok, seriously: The Cab IR is brilliant cool!

Thanks for your hard work! I appreciate it - i participate! Thanks!
 
I used to own one of these (I inherited it from my Dad who passed away recently). It had a tone that was just incredible for it's cleans. I sent it to get serviced and the person I left it with stuck it in the back of his shop for the best part of three months. I think this was because he couldn't find the proper valves for it. In the meantime, damp got in and ruined the original housings for the components. Also, when he took it out of storage, the first thing he did was to plug it in and turn it on. The damp had also gotten into the transformer, and it blew, smoke and everything. The transformer could have been replaced, but the real amp killer was the housings having been ruined.

Needless to say, I have not had any further dealings with said 'tech' and I was compensated. However, I have never been able to find the same tone that I had with this old battered AC30 head.

When I saw you had tonematched it, tbh, I felt quite emotional. I have ordered an Axe II for a number of reasons, the JVM model, the tonematching, etc. But the real icing, the thing that tipped me over the edge was finding out that you had done this. With a little tweaking, I hope to have my Dad's old amp back.

So thank you so much. You have absolutely no idea what this means for me.

D.
 
I did not load the patches yet, but if they do not work try disengaging a volume pedal if one is present in the chain, sometimes the axe interprets the volume pedal as being all the up when a new preset is loaded.
 
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