A stock IR thread!

BobMac

Member
Hi Guys,

New to the forum having just bought an axe fx standard. Well , I have been reading alot on everything axe related before i took the plunge to buy it and the IR topic was one of these areas that has been most interesting.

The Stock IRs to me so far have been a mix of really excellent and a bit odd but this is most likely due to the amp and settings with which I am pairing them with.

Are there any words of wisdom from all you guys :ugeek: spending months and months in dark basements covered in cobwebs and stubble researching and trying out and making nearfield , farfield, leftfield, downfield IRs for us new to this area on how to get the best out of the stock IRs.

I like to think I have a decent enough ear but a couple of words from you guys to point me in the right direction would be Much appreciated

Thanks

Rob
 
The stock IR's are excellent.

I find the best way to use them are to simply drop a PEQ after the cab block and set Band 1 to 'blocking' at 120Hz with a Q of .707; set Band 5 to 'blocking' at 7116Hz with a Q of .707; adjust to taste and rock on. That removes some of the bottom end mud and smooths out the top; depending on what mic you choose (or not choose).

Folks get caught up in too many things; I could easily use all stock IR's and be totally happy. But we live in a world where we can choose now; and that opens up possibilities for folks that like that sort of control.

No matter what way you go, using high quality IR's - like the stock ones that come in the Axe-FX and/or quality after market (freely distributed or commercial) - makes dialing your tone and the experience of playing just that much more fun.

And in the end, all that matters is the fun. Making music should be fun!
 
Thanks for the responce Scot. That is a great help ill give it a go tonight!

Indeed making music should be fun! :)

Thanks again

Rob
 
Scott Peterson said:
I find the best way to use them are to simply drop a PEQ after the cab block and set Band 1 to 'blocking' at 120Hz with a Q of .707; set Band 5 to 'blocking' at 7116Hz with a Q of .707; adjust to taste and rock on. That removes some of the bottom end mud and smooths out the top; depending on what mic you choose (or not choose).

Great tip :eek: Scott, you are a "tip master" :D
 
Scott's advice here is crucial to developing great tones.

I'll add that the ability to run stereo cabs is a huge plus. Pairing two cabs that have complimentary characteristics can result in some really balanced tones. For instance, I've had great results combining the 1x12 black and the 2x12 blue in conjunction with the aforementioned PEQ techniques.
 
Scott Peterson said:
The stock IR's are excellent.

I find the best way to use them are to simply drop a PEQ after the cab block and set Band 1 to 'blocking' at 120Hz with a Q of .707; set Band 5 to 'blocking' at 7116Hz with a Q of .707; adjust to taste and rock on. That removes some of the bottom end mud and smooths out the top; depending on what mic you choose (or not choose).

I put that on the Wiki, under Scott Petersons EQ tips on the tutorial section.

http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... s_EQ_Links
 
So far, I've only used the stock IRs and almost always need to use the PEQ. Do you find it necessary to use the PEQ with other IRs (like redwirez)?
 
kruzty said:
So far, I've only used the stock IRs and almost always need to use the PEQ. Do you find it necessary to use the PEQ with other IRs (like redwirez)?

"Necessary" is a qualifier that I'd not attach to anything, even the stock IR's. To me, it's simply taste/preferences and creating the 'fit' for the sonic timbre in the mix.

I have the same basic starting PEQ for every preset, adjust to taste depending on that preset, and have a IA control to turn the PEQ on/off as needed in my presets. That's independent of using User IR's or Stock IR's. To me the PEQ is a tool that everyone should be familiar, or get that way, with using. Part of the 'cut' in the mix is more of what you are not hearing, ie. mud, than jacking any given level with EQ. Note that I rarely if ever 'boost' with GEQ or PEQ. That's a very important point. You'll find if you study mixing a band or a recording that you almost universally shelf the low and (to a lesser extent) high end to create the 'clarity' a good mix can impart. With the Axe-FX you can essentially 'pre-mix' your entire sonic picture and present it to FOH (or recording) allowing for little or none 'corrective' EQ.

You need to 'define' the guitar's portion of the sonic mix, focused on the mids. What you see with guys that don't have the experience or mixing chops is that they jack up the mids... or worse, cut them out. Alone in a room, it sounds massive. In a real mix situation, where you actually play with other musicians, you disappear. Jacking up the mids works, but sounds nasal and boxy. By simply rolling off the lows and highs, you leave room for the lower register instruments and upper register highs without actually sacrificing anything other than what we have become accustomed to hearing (and feeling) from a big 212 or 412 cab. What's funny is that if you took the 'massive' tone that you are feeding to a board, (recording or live) that is properly mixed and EQ'd, your 'massive' tone is actually shaped to be very small and 'focused'. Guys seem to never get their heads around the reality of it; guitarists are the worst for this sort of sonic 'efficiency'.

In the room, just jamming or having fun I turn the PEQ off and soak in the big massive thing we all dig. It's primal and visceral. Every guitarist that has ever cranked up an amp and just reveled in the power and impact of the tone and volume 'gets' what I am describing. The key to a proper mix is taking just enough of that wall of sound and fitting it in with the rest.

For a guitar to cut AND have 'body' against keyboards and especially vocalists (the damned hogs of the sonic world lol) you don't need to boost or cut mids as much as watch your bottom and top end and the mids - assuming you are not some 'scooped' mids junkie - just sit better because the overtones from the muddy bottom and 'sssss' from the extreme top aren't stacking up and clouding those mids.

It's easy to show it in practice, if you jam along with recorded music out by mixing your signal in with the recorded music and played back over a good flat studio monitor. Turn the PEQ off and you 'drop back' in the sonic picture and you can 'sense' you are in there, but will feel the need to turn your volume UP to compensate. Then click in your tuned PEQ and viola, your 'focused' and more 'efficient' sound just 'fits' and you can actually turn down your volume in the mix and still cut and fit.
 
Since the day I ran across Scott's posts about the AX, when I was looking for some new gear, he has never led me astray.
Always great advice.
But i didn't follow him into the IR mixer rabbit hole, lol.
I've been happy with complementary stereo cabs
and Redwirz (that was another suggestion by Scott)
Thanks for all you do Scott.
Duane
 
Scott Peterson said:
The stock IR's are excellent.

I find the best way to use them are to simply drop a PEQ after the cab block and set Band 1 to 'blocking' at 120Hz with a Q of .707; set Band 5 to 'blocking' at 7116Hz with a Q of .707; adjust to taste and rock on. That removes some of the bottom end mud and smooths out the top; depending on what mic you choose (or not choose).

quote]

Tried this Last night so simple but soo effective. I was getting there with getting rid of some of the unwanted bass but this tip just took care of it all.

Thanks Scott
 
Are you leaving the low and high cut values in the amp advanced section at their defaults when using the PEQ after the stock cab?
 
zone1 said:
Are you leaving the low and high cut values in the amp advanced section at their defaults when using the PEQ after the stock cab?

I am leaving those values stock unless I am specifically going after something tone-wise that requires using them.
 
Some of my favorite tones from my Axe-FX use stock IR's. Subsequently, some of my other favorite tones from my Axe-FX use aftermarket IR's.

Win-Win

Like Scott said, you can get great tones with either one.

One way of looking at aftermarket IR's is that they give you additional option's. Those option's may provide you with exactly what you're looking for with a certain amp and tone quest that MAYBE you were night finding with the stock IR's.

However, the opposite also works with other amps and tone quests where the stock IR's are what you want to hear. It's all good! :D
 
It's not really a matter of quality. The stock IRs are exactly what they are. An accurate representation of the tone coming from the specified cab picked up by an Earthworks reference microphone at an unspecified spot, with an unspecified amplifier (although knowing Cliff, probably an accurate one). The thing with the Redwirez is that for every cab and mic in the collection you have a boatload of IRs at different placings, angles an distances.

But even if you mix a couple of IRs (Redwirez Mike made a Reaper project to mix and render IRs), rework them using EQs and what ever, it will still be a quality IR, just reworked extensively.

I like combining the German cab with the V30. More or less V30 depending on how much bite I want. And the PEQBlocker, with an additional band pulling out 125 Hz with a Q of about 2k.
 
Scott Peterson said:
kruzty said:
So far, I've only used the stock IRs and almost always need to use the PEQ. Do you find it necessary to use the PEQ with other IRs (like redwirez)?

"Necessary" is a qualifier that I'd not attach to anything, even the stock IR's. To me, it's simply taste/preferences and creating the 'fit' for the sonic timbre in the mix.

I have the same basic starting PEQ for every preset, adjust to taste depending on that preset, and have a IA control to turn the PEQ on/off as needed in my presets. That's independent of using User IR's or Stock IR's. To me the PEQ is a tool that everyone should be familiar, or get that way, with using. Part of the 'cut' in the mix is more of what you are not hearing, ie. mud, than jacking any given level with EQ. Note that I rarely if ever 'boost' with GEQ or PEQ. That's a very important point. You'll find if you study mixing a band or a recording that you almost universally shelf the low and (to a lesser extent) high end to create the 'clarity' a good mix can impart. With the Axe-FX you can essentially 'pre-mix' your entire sonic picture and present it to FOH (or recording) allowing for little or none 'corrective' EQ.

You need to 'define' the guitar's portion of the sonic mix, focused on the mids. What you see with guys that don't have the experience or mixing chops is that they jack up the mids... or worse, cut them out. Alone in a room, it sounds massive. In a real mix situation, where you actually play with other musicians, you disappear. Jacking up the mids works, but sounds nasal and boxy. By simply rolling off the lows and highs, you leave room for the lower register instruments and upper register highs without actually sacrificing anything other than what we have become accustomed to hearing (and feeling) from a big 212 or 412 cab. What's funny is that if you took the 'massive' tone that you are feeding to a board, (recording or live) that is properly mixed and EQ'd, your 'massive' tone is actually shaped to be very small and 'focused'. Guys seem to never get their heads around the reality of it; guitarists are the worst for this sort of sonic 'efficiency'.

In the room, just jamming or having fun I turn the PEQ off and soak in the big massive thing we all dig. It's primal and visceral. Every guitarist that has ever cranked up an amp and just reveled in the power and impact of the tone and volume 'gets' what I am describing. The key to a proper mix is taking just enough of that wall of sound and fitting it in with the rest.

For a guitar to cut AND have 'body' against keyboards and especially vocalists (the damned hogs of the sonic world lol) you don't need to boost or cut mids as much as watch your bottom and top end and the mids - assuming you are not some 'scooped' mids junkie - just sit better because the overtones from the muddy bottom and 'sssss' from the extreme top aren't stacking up and clouding those mids.

It's easy to show it in practice, if you jam along with recorded music out by mixing your signal in with the recorded music and played back over a good flat studio monitor. Turn the PEQ off and you 'drop back' in the sonic picture and you can 'sense' you are in there, but will feel the need to turn your volume UP to compensate. Then click in your tuned PEQ and viola, your 'focused' and more 'efficient' sound just 'fits' and you can actually turn down your volume in the mix and still cut and fit.

I've read a lot of threads/posts about EQ on this and other forums, but that is the best, concise-yet-thorough explanation I've ever read as far as EQ with regard to guitar rigs. Thanks Scott for all your efforts.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I find the best way to use them are to simply drop a PEQ after the cab block and set Band 1 to 'blocking' at 120Hz with a Q of .707; set Band 5 to 'blocking' at 7116Hz with a Q of .707; adjust to taste and rock on. That removes some of the bottom end mud and smooths out the top; depending on what mic you choose (or not choose).

Man, this tip is a golden nugget for me. Thanks again Scott! :cool:
 
It's not really a matter of quality. The stock IRs are exactly what they are. An accurate representation of the tone coming from the specified cab picked up by an Earthworks reference microphone at an unspecified spot, with an unspecified amplifier (although knowing Cliff, probably an accurate one). The thing with the Redwirez is that for every cab and mic in the collection you have a boatload of IRs at different placings, angles an distances.

But even if you mix a couple of IRs (Redwirez Mike made a Reaper project to mix and render IRs), rework them using EQs and what ever, it will still be a quality IR, just reworked extensively.

I like combining the German cab with the V30. More or less V30 depending on how much bite I want. And the PEQBlocker, with an additional band pulling out 125 Hz with a Q of about 2k.

I just took a look at all the stock factory cabs and where each of them come from. I was surprised to see that almost all of favorite stock cabs come from Redwirez. I just bought both the Ownhammer mix packs, and will be getting both the Fractal Producer Packs soon. I'll probably eventually get the Red Wirez Big Box also now that I've noticed almost all of my favorite factory cabs are from Red Wirez.

CAB (block): list - Axe-Fx II Wiki
 
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