A cover band these days? No way in hell! BMI sues bar...

Another comparison is how rights are addressed in the visual arts world. Artists and their estates retain rights with regard to reproduction of the original work of art. For example, if a museum purchases a painting and an image of that work is featured in a textbook, then the publisher must obtain limited rights to use the reproduction. Organizations such as VAGA collect fees on behalf of artists.

The use of an image and licensing gets murky however. The museum can reproduce a painting in its collection for educational purposes (e.g., gallery guides) without permission. On the other hand, the textbook example above is considered a commercial venture and permission is required. The law is evolving as to how “educational purpose” is defined.

To further complicate matters, a painter can “reproduce” an original artwork by another artist as closely as they desire as long as they claim it’s an interpretative work – art about art. That painter can also sell and exhibit the work in a for-profit-business without penalty. In this case, it seems artistic license trumps the copyright.

A dilemma for visual artists is that monetary value is directly associated with how much their work is acknowledged, usually in the form of reproduction. That is how they gain fame and stay relevant. Ironically, textbooks and commercial art publications play a key role.

There are many parallels between the art and music world.
 
Yeah, visual art laws are pretty jacked, I've been learning those too. I'm actually back in college for 2D animation just because me and my bassist joked that it might me fun to do a cartoon. Seriously, that was what sparked going back to college. It kinda grew from there, and we actually did go, and set some goals, but because of that I've been looking into all of that stuff.

Also, if you do want to get into some grey area, check out parody laws in the arts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Is the live music scene sucking everywhere but Texas? I mean, clubs suck and don't pay...
Clubs used to hire for 6 nights straight and pay $4,000...does that sounds less sucky to you? That said, some of those clubs did suck but it was mostly the owner's attitude.
 
Clubs used to hire for 6 nights straight and pay $4,000...that sounds less sucky to me, though some of those clubs did suck.

Now, if you were a cover band, that used to be a thing, not so much anymore. I don't think this has anything to do with any of the other problems. It's just cheaper to have a jukebox connected to the Internet, and pay the jukebox fee than it is to hire a band to do the same thing, plus pay the jukebox fee, (cause you're going to have one) and the live band fee.

Used to be that the jukebox was filled with out of date material, and a cover band would play the newer hits. This just isn't a necessity anymore. Now the only thing I see that comes even close anymore is karaoke nights. Those guys can bank, if they're any good. One of my good friends supports is whole family doing that, his wife doesn't even need to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, visual art laws are pretty jacked, I've been learning those too. I'm actually back in college for 2D animation just because me and my bassist joked that it might me fun to do a cartoon. Seriously, that was what sparked going back to college. It kinda grew from there, and we actually did go, and set some goals, but because of that I've been looking into all of that stuff.

Also, if you do want to get into some grey area, check out parody laws in the arts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Parody laws...grey areas and fuzzing around the edges. Lol I'm a life-long museum director and copyright laws are a major topic these days.
 
Clubs used to hire for 6 nights straight and pay $4,000...does that sounds less sucky to you? That said, some of those clubs did suck but it was mostly the owner's attitude.

In my Tri-State region bands use to perform three days a week (W, F & S) year-round. To avoid boycotts, membership in the musicians union was required by club managers. One couldn’t feed a family but wages were adequate if you maintained a day job. Most of those clubs no longer hire live bands because of the hassles.

Today, I reside in a college town where clubs actually prefer bands that play original music. Unfortunately, that preference doesn’t apply once you leave city limits.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I disagree.
FAS is modeling those amps.. based on algorithm's, etc., CREATED by Cliff.
He's not "copying" the physical design, nor building replicas of them to sell, but emulating the sound they achieve.
In court, I believe this would fall under the old "look and feel" ruling from long ago (Lotus123 vs Borland) and nothing would come of it.

Bingo.
 
I really don't give a shit about the music ''industry''.

We feel the same way about everything you utter on these forums.

Fuck you and your personal attack. You don't know me.

Oh but we DO know you.

Jeez, I can't believe this thread manage to devolve. I should just assume it will happen to every thread so I won't be so damn disappointed.

Any thread Surhfer gets involved in devolves.

Somethings wrong with the world today. I don't know what it is.

Aerosmith's attorneys will be in touch.
 
So BMI sucks for collecting fees that are owed to musicians for their original work? Really?

Musicians are the only "artists" that are expected to just give their work away. If you had a copy of a famous painting, you would have to buy it to possess it. The venue can buy the licensing. They buy their booze, and toilet paper (hopefully).

As noted by others, the musicians rarely see much of the money, but even a little is better than nothing. Don't hassle the performer, hassle the venue. They can always have a silent bar and see how that works out for them.
 
Now, if you were a cover band, that used to be a thing, not so much anymore. I don't think this has anything to do with any of the other problems. It's just cheaper to have a jukebox connected to the Internet, and pay the jukebox fee than it is to hire a band to do the same thing, plus pay the jukebox fee, (cause you're going to have one) and the live band fee.

Used to be that the jukebox was filled with out of date material, and a cover band would play the newer hits. This just isn't a necessity anymore. Now the only thing I see that comes even close anymore is karaoke nights. Those guys can bank, if they're any good. One of my good friends supports is whole family doing that, his wife doesn't even need to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...and a big plus...the jukebox never gets your waitress knocked up.
 
So BMI sucks for collecting fees that are owed to musicians for their original work? Really?

Musicians are the only "artists" that are expected to just give their work away. If you had a copy of a famous painting, you would have to buy it to possess it. The venue can buy the licensing. They buy their booze, and toilet paper (hopefully).

As noted by others, the musicians rarely see much of the money, but even a little is better than nothing. Don't hassle the performer, hassle the venue. They can always have a silent bar and see how that works out for them.

What? If you are addressing my earlier post, you’re missing the point (if not, sorry), which is – what constitutes an original or a copy can be interpreted differently in the visual arts, depending on the intent of the artist. It is commonplace for visual artists to incorporate well-know artworks into their own work to express an idea.

By the way, when comparing income, the majority of working musicians fare much better than most painters. And they also get constant requests to either donate or give away their work for free.
 
By the way, when comparing income, the majority of working musicians fare much better than most painters. And they also get constant requests to either donate or give away their work for free.

According to Forbes you may actually be a bit wrong here. Painting, as in paints and a canvas, seems to be quite on the rise, because of the recession, and is a more viable source of income than most other forms of art at the moment.

Less painters seem to need a day job than musicians.

Animation takes the number one source of a steady viable income art form.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've been making my living playing nothing but covers for almost 15 years now, 3 gigs a week. All of the venues pay not only ASCAP/BMI fees, but also an entertainment tax. They all display signs at the entrance stating that a portion of the cover charge and drink prices are used to pay these fees. It is a tiered system that depends on the maximum occupancy of the room. The rooms we play must pay 10%.

Live Entertainment Tax & FAQ’s

This is transparent to the band. We sign a contract for a certain amount per gig. That's all we care about. The audience seems content with the prices. The venues seem happy. Interesting though, how no information is provided on where this tax money goes. Nevada has no state income tax, so they figure out other ways to extract money.
 
I haven't seen that report...very surprising. One would think art fields like graphic design would do better since there is a commercial market. Nonetheless that's good news...I have an MFA in painting.
 
I haven't seen that report...very surprising. One would think art fields like graphic design would do better since there is a commercial market. Nonetheless that's good news...I have an MFA in painting.

I stared a degree in graphic design till I realized I didn't need one. Unfortunately, it has been totally co-opted by the ability for any idiot that has access to clipart, and/or photoshop, so it doesn't make as much money as it used too. I do it on the side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I stared a degree in graphic design till I realized I didn't need one. Unfortunately, it has been totally co-opted by the ability for any idiot that has access to clipart, and/or photoshop, so it doesn't make as much money as it used too. I do it on the side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The dark side of technology I'm afraid.
 
Back
Top Bottom