A Christmas Gift for You — FRFR amp-in-the-room

Rex

Dignified but Approachable
Much has been written about FRFR vs the amp-in-the-room sound. Some would say too much. There's something special about the sound and feel you get from a real guitar cab singing merrily behind you. It's a guitarist-only thing, and it can only be experienced by the person wearing the guitar, but it's real.

I'm a die-hard FRFR convert. Have been for years. And I've found amp-in-the-room.


I was playing a carols-and-beer gig at a local brew pub. It was a fun gig. Happy, Christmasy songs that everyone knew and could sing along to. A relaxed crowd in an intimate atmosphere, warmed by a glass or two of some very tasty beer that had been brewed in the back room. Children running around, nibbling appetizers, and singing along when they knew the words. Seven or eight other musicians, half of whom I knew well and had played with many times. I'd never met the other half.

But it was a challenging gig, too. The room was really two rooms, separated by a low wall. There was no stage, so we were lined up against three of the four walls of one of the rooms, Except for the drums and they keyboard, we were standing almost shoulder-to-shoulder. I had to stand sideways to keep my headstock out of the face of the singer next to me.

The PA was tiny and hastily thrown together. There were barely enough channels to go around, so I used my wedge as backline. No FOH for me. Just my trusty AX8 and a borrowed $300 Electro-Voice ZLX-12P standing between me and the crowd. I stood the wedge on end, two feet behind me.

I spent the whole night on one of my go-to presets: a Deluxe Verb patch with factory cab 80, dialed in for a 1000-seat venue. By coincidence, I had spent part of that afternoon plugged into a real, flesh-and-blood pre-CBS Deluxe Reverb.

And there it was. The sound, feel, and overall experience was identical—as near as I could tell—to the sound, feel and experience I got from that real, vintage, blackface beauty. There was nothing lacking. I was grinning the whole night.


The bottom line: If you're running FRFR, and you miss that amp-in-the-room vibe, just stand your monitor on end and point it at your knees. Oh, and you'll need a room, too. :)


Merry Christmas!
 
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75% of the shows I play are like this. My ELX112 on end, a meter behind me at my knees, pointed out the crowd. Works as great as any amp I ever had did and then some.
 
Great story! Just ran my first FRFR gig without my 2x12 cab. I ran one elx112 on the floor behind me, like a monitor pointed at the crowd. I didn't really feel like I was missing anything, and the dispersion of the highs was so much better. The venue had just installed a new sound system with QSC mains and monitors. Sounded fantastic,and I didn't have to haul the 2x12 cab.
 
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Thus far, I have only been using one or two EV zlx12p speakers on end and in the back line - maybe that's why I never missed "amp in the room" from the start? I think my rig sounds better than any single tube amp I've ever owned. Hands down.
 
Great story. Just wondering how your presets translated. Did you create them using a Electro-Voice cab?
 
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Great story. Just wondering how your presets translated. Did you create them using a Electro-Voice cab?
Nope. Created at home on my Event ASP8's. Tweaked through FOH in a large, reverberant room. The Electro-Voice speaker is normally just for stage monitoring. As monitors, they get no special treatment, other than a high-pass at around 120 Hz. I consider stage sound to be secondary to what the audience hears.
 
It's what i do with my k12, on end, set to flat, sounds fantastic to me. Every sound guy I encounter compliments me. Awesome glad you found what works.
 
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Been using ev-livex (ELX)112p for years, never looked back . 2 set up though ear level in bedroom, I feel I might as well set them up to hear all the actual sounds, but Im sure pointed at my feet would be thick deep as amp in room, though I would find myself cranking the highs too much.
 
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I've done this on occassion, but sometimes depending on the FRFR solution and distance to the amp, I hear only the tweeter and less of the horn and hear the scrapey high end. Happens with my ASM-12 alot if I'm a specific distance to it (around 3-4 feet) The further I get, the better it sounds together.
 
My direct tone through FOH is excellent and my FR monitors work fine as wedges.
But TBH I'll stick to a traditional cab when my rig has to fill a stage or room.
 
Especially with the last few updates I can go for Direct or FRFR and my presets translate great with my Friedmans.. volume is a different story but that's my fault
 
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I'...sometimes depending on the FRFR solution and distance to the amp, I hear only the tweeter and less of the horn...
Confused. Usually, the tweeter feeds the horn. Do you mean that, when you're outside of the beam, you hear more of the drier and less of the horn it feeds?
 
FRFR amp in the room = AccuGroove.

They sound and feel the same (or as close as you can get) to a traditional backline, but with so much more flexibility. In fact; I've done many gigs without even needing to go through the PA.

I have the EV's too, and it's not even a close comparison. The EV's are great vocal monitors, but for me a bit harsh (brash) sounding with guitar (IMHO).

I still have Marshall and Mesa stacks that I've used through the years. Now they've been collecting dust for the past couple of years since I've purchased the AccuGroove cabinets (Latte's).

A bit pricey, but well worth it for killer live sound. I couldn't be happier with the investment. Bottom line..You get what you pay for.
 
Much has been written about FRFR vs the amp-in-the-room sound. Some would say too much. There's something special about the sound and feel you get from a real guitar cab singing merrily behind you. It's a guitarist-only thing, and it can only be experienced by the person wearing the guitar, but it's real.

I'm a die-hard FRFR convert. Have been for years. And I've found amp-in-the-room.


I was playing a carols-and-beer gig at a local brew pub. It was a fun gig. Happy, Christmasy songs that everyone knew and could sing along to. A relaxed crowd in an intimate atmosphere, warmed by a glass or two of some very tasty beer that had been brewed in the back room. Children running around, nibbling appetizers, and singing along when they knew the words. Seven or eight other musicians, half of whom I knew well and had played with many times. I'd never met the other half.

But it was a challenging gig, too. The room was really two rooms, separated by a low wall. There was no stage, so we were lined up against three of the four walls of one of the rooms, Except for the drums and they keyboard, we were standing almost shoulder-to-shoulder. I had to stand sideways to keep my headstock out of the face of the singer next to me.

The PA was tiny and hastily thrown together. There were barely enough channels to go around, so I used my wedge as backline. No FOH for me. Just my trusty AX8 and a borrowed $300 Electro-Voice ZLX-12P standing between me and the crowd. I stood the wedge on end, two feet behind me.

I spent the whole night on one of my go-to presets: a Deluxe Verb patch with factory cab 80, dialed in for a 1000-seat venue. By coincidence, I had spent part of that afternoon plugged into a real, flesh-and-blood pre-CBS Deluxe Reverb.

And there it was. The sound, feel, and overall experience was identical—as near as I could tell—to the sound, feel and experience I got from that real, vintage, blackface beauty. There was nothing lacking. I was grinning the whole night.


The bottom line: If you're running FRFR, and you miss that amp-in-the-room vibe, just stand your monitor on end and point it at your knees. Oh, and you'll need a room, too. :)


Merry Christmas!
Creating the amp in the room feel with FRFR has never been a problem for me. Properly mic'ing a horn loaded cab is an entirely different story.
 
Creating the amp in the room feel with FRFR has never been a problem for me. Properly mic'ing a horn loaded cab is an entirely different story.
You mean horn-loaded LF driver, or cab with a compression driver handling the HF, or...?
 
Properly mic'ing a horn loaded cab is an entirely different story.

With all due respect; if you're using FRFR why wouldn't you just go line-direct? All of the elements are there with the balanced outputs, cab and amp simulators. It couldn't be any easier with an Axe-FX.

If I'm using an FRFR setup (which I do at most gigs), the first thing I tell the sound guy when I get there (provided there is one)... "Please give me a line-direct in, thank you".

At this point, I haven't found a reason yet not to go line-direct, if there is a need to be mic'd at all.

In fact; A true story for all the equipment failure paranoia out there... One night out in Brooklyn we did a show and my amp blew up mid song. I had the sound guy pull me up a few notches and add me to the monitors (instant FOH). It was a little weird at first listening to myself in the monitors, but the show went on without any further issues.

That's just another great reason to go line-direct while using FRFR (IMHO). It's an awesome failover.
 
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