...

Many people who achieve fame discover that... it's not what they wanted. How you can presume what another person 'should' feel, especially a person with a familial history of depression and suicide, beats me. I guess some people are simply incapable of understanding that other people may be experiencing things that are outside of their own experience. Neither you or I can know the pain he felt, or why he felt it, or indeed if it could have been ameliorated had he taken other paths.

George Harrison said of fame: after I'd gotten all the girls, all the drugs, all the money, all the adulation - I realized none of it mattered. That is when I truly began my spiritual quest.

Many, many people find fame to be corrosive, disorienting, and destructive. Take Eric Clapton: Blind Faith had just done a horrible show, according to him - phoned-in, wretched. Yet the crowd went wild. They were seeing a 'super group' and therefore engaged in a sort of mass consensual hallucination that they were seeing something great. Everyone in the band was dejected. They knew the show sucked, and this misplaced adulation had the effect of making them question their worth as musicians, since people couldn't seem to tell the difference.
The odds of anyone being noticed at all are so small in the music industry. I just couldn't understand how someone could win the lottery and then commit suicide.

Death by drugs I can understand. If you take drugs and suddenly have a mountain of money bad things can happen.

How can you be suicidal because your house is too big, your car is too nice, and too many people love your music? Those things sound like treatment for suicidal tendencies to me!
 
This viewpoint always fascinates me, since I come from the opposite side: I'd rather hear a non-technical and 'simple' player like John Lee Hooker play one note, with total conviction, than all the hyper-technical stunt guitarists, who rarely convince me that they have any conviction at all except 'I want to play faster/more complex sh#t than anyone else'.

Rock, for me, is about PRIMAL energy, tapping into that genetic 'memory' of cavemen stomping and yelling around a campfire 30,000 years ago. It's about rage, love, lust, joy, terror. It's often RAW. Nirvana captured that perfectly. Lithium was a direct offshoot of Iggy Pop, The Clash, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, and so many others who upended the temple, threw out the dinosaurs like Eddie Van Halen (who BEGGED Cobain to let him come onstage with him).

I also like some VERY technically proficient player (Hendrix, Zappa and especially Jeff Beck come to mind). But I like them because a) Technique is NEVER wagging the dog. it is in SERViCE to the song, the tune, not the other way around and b) They are usually only flashing at a point of crescendo. Sure, sometimes they're excessive, but in general, they noodle less, shred less, and build their solos with emotional content, reaching a climax, if you will. That's way more impressive to me than Buckethead playing 5 million notes in 5 minutes, though, I admit, I'd LOVE to have his technical ability. If the Devil, or God, offered me the ability to have the technique of him or Satch, Vai etc. , but the deal was I'd have to play lIKE them, with their endless sweep picking barrage of musically meaningless notes, melodies that no one will remember in 20 years, Id' tell 'em HELL NO! Leave me as a former cripple, with rudimentary abilities - at least my SOUL speaks through me music! At least my ego, my technique, are subservient to my art, not in charge of it.

I always felt that if the 80's rock guitar was about how technically proficient your playing was, I felt the 90's was about how minimalist your playing was. Excessiveness led to minimalism. The reason I wasn't a fan of Nirvana was because their music didn't just feel minimal. To me, it felt like punk that lacked even more intelligence. They just felt "dumb" to me. I was so happy when I discovered that other guitarists felt the same way I did.
 
Many people who achieve fame discover that... it's not what they wanted. How you can presume what another person 'should' feel, especially a person with a familial history of depression and suicide, beats me. I guess some people are simply incapable of understanding that other people may be experiencing things that are outside of their own experience. Neither you or I can know the pain he felt, or why he felt it, or indeed if it could have been ameliorated had he taken other paths.

George Harrison said of fame: after I'd gotten all the girls, all the drugs, all the money, all the adulation - I realized none of it mattered. That is when I truly began my spiritual quest.

Many, many people find fame to be corrosive, disorienting, and destructive. Take Eric Clapton: Blind Faith had just done a horrible show, according to him - phoned-in, wretched. Yet the crowd went wild. They were seeing a 'super group' and therefore engaged in a sort of mass consensual hallucination that they were seeing something great. Everyone in the band was dejected. They knew the show sucked, and this misplaced adulation had the effect of making them question their worth as musicians, since people couldn't seem to tell the difference.

Very well said!

Cobain struck me as a very talented individual who was not well equipped to deal with all the fame and BS that came along with it.

Smells like teen Spirit is a very good song and I liked it the first 20 times I heard it, after 5000 times, I lost interest, same as the band who didn't really want to play it live after a while, but then, once you start digging in their discography, you find some pretty cool and well thought-out gems, which I think defines the band, much more than SLTS..., IMO, of course.
 
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Nicely stated and my thoughts exactly.

Sorry you went through that time with your mother passing--must have been rough.

This viewpoint always fascinates me, since I come from the opposite side: I'd rather hear a non-technical and 'simple' player like John Lee Hooker play one note, with total conviction, than all the hyper-technical stunt guitarists, who rarely convince me that they have any conviction at all except 'I want to play faster/more complex sh#t than anyone else'.

Rock, for me, is about PRIMAL energy, tapping into that genetic 'memory' of cavemen stomping and yelling around a campfire 30,000 years ago. It's about rage, love, lust, joy, terror. It's often RAW. Nirvana captured that perfectly. Lithium was a direct offshoot of Iggy Pop, The Clash, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, and so many others who upended the temple, threw out the dinosaurs like Eddie Van Halen (who BEGGED Cobain to let him come onstage with him).

I also like some VERY technically proficient player (Hendrix, Zappa and especially Jeff Beck come to mind). But I like them because a) Technique is NEVER wagging the dog. it is in SERViCE to the song, the tune, not the other way around and b) They are usually only flashing at a point of crescendo. Sure, sometimes they're excessive, but in general, they noodle less, shred less, and build their solos with emotional content, reaching a climax, if you will. That's way more impressive to me than Buckethead playing 5 million notes in 5 minutes, though, I admit, I'd LOVE to have his technical ability. If the Devil, or God, offered me the ability to have the technique of him or Satch, Vai etc. , but the deal was I'd have to play lIKE them, with their endless sweep picking barrage of musically meaningless notes, melodies that no one will remember in 20 years, Id' tell 'em HELL NO! Leave me as a former cripple, with rudimentary abilities - at least my SOUL speaks through me music! At least my ego, my technique, are subservient to my art, not in charge of it.
 
Oh, I like primal energy. It's a big draw to me with rock guitar. I just feel like Nirvana lacked intelligence. You can run around shaking your fist at the world screaming, but if it isn't communicated in a clever way or fairly cerebral way, then it just sounds like a teenage garage band.

Some 80's musicians pushed million-notes a minute to the limit. I didn't like that extreme either.
 
Oh, I like primal energy. It's a big draw to me with rock guitar. I just feel like Nirvana lacked intelligence. You can run around shaking your fist at the world screaming, but if it isn't communicated in a clever way or fairly cerebral way, then it just sounds like a teenage garage band.

Some 80's musicians pushed million-notes a minute to the limit. I didn't like that extreme either.

I'd strongly disagree. Even as someone that didn't really "get" Nirvana when they were around (and they're still not among my favorite bands), what they did was actually surprisingly complex at times and Cobain's lyrics never disappointed.
 
George Harrison said of fame: after I'd gotten all the girls, all the drugs, all the money, all the adulation - I realized none of it mattered.

The trick is, of course, to realise that none of that matters in the first place
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The trick is, of course, to realise that none of that matters in the first place
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Oh, if every Bieber/boyband-wannabe took that to their heart. There would/could be so much good music out there that actually would be possible to get some play in radio and well-deserved media attention.

RIP: Kurt Cobain
(I wasn´t really into Nirvanas music, even though I liked quite a few of their songs and was very much into grunge at that time).
 
Indeed. I am surprised people thin Nirvana lacked intelligence. Their lyrics were better poetry, used language in a more interesting way than most bands - including Rush and the Rolling Stones (but not the kinks!) IMHO. Great lyrics, great command of English, and interesting ideas too.
I'd strongly disagree. Even as someone that didn't really "get" Nirvana when they were around (and they're still not among my favorite bands), what they did was actually surprisingly complex at times and Cobain's lyrics never disappointed.
 
Indeed. I am surprised people thin Nirvana lacked intelligence. Their lyrics were better poetry, used language in a more interesting way than most bands - including Rush and the Rolling Stones (but not the kinks!) IMHO. Great lyrics, great command of English, and interesting ideas too.

I also thought it was very surprising to read folks commenting on the perceived lack of intelligence. The music and lyrics written by Cobain and band (not sure how much influence Grohl had at that time?) were extremely refreshing and creative for those times and represented the end and beginning of a new era. The rawness and sincerity in many of Cobain's songs are exactly what draw me to music, as an emotional trigger.

I don't see any connection between Nirvana and Nickelback, and in my mind, Nickelback killed (and still is killing) music...Don't get me wrong, I am not a Nickelback hater and am very happy for their success, but the fact that they can be that big with such a lack of musical content is a product of an mp3 rapid consumer generation and quite frankly, scares the f&*k out of me. I just hope my kids will end up with better musical taste later on in life, which is why I constantly play Zappa at home, just to confuse them a bit on the side...
 
Playing Zappa to convince people to like higher quality music is like using a sledgehammer to make applejuice. It just doesn't work.

Sorry, I disagree. At the ages my kids are, their brains are like sponges...and even if they don't like the music on the spot, they will remember it when they are older as resonating sounds and feelings stored away in their long term memory. Same as I experienced hearing late 60's early 70's music which I didn't get when I was younger, which made sense to me later in life.

Mostly spin the guitar vamp stuff: Guitar, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar series and Peaches, King Kong on AHOTT, Inca Roads on OSFA, Chunga's Revenge, mostly instrumental stuff...I do stay away from the vulgar and political stuff as well as the synclavier stuf like Civilization Phaze III, Everything Is Healing Nicely, Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger, Francesco Zappa, Thing-Fish, etc...The Synclavier period is just too much for them, actually, probably a bit too much for a lot of people!
 
Although their music really paved the way for grunge, I never quite 'got it' especially at the time. I still remember hearing the news report on MTV being delivered by Kurt Loder (?) and him saying something along the lines of "we're mourning the loss of one of the greatest guitarists in rock history."

I was like 'huh?"

I actually felt he was a better vocalist than he was a guitarist.
 
Although their music really paved the way for grunge, I never quite 'got it' especially at the time. I still remember hearing the news report on MTV being delivered by Kurt Loder (?) and him saying something along the lines of "we're mourning the loss of one of the greatest guitarists in rock history."

I was like 'huh?"

I actually felt he was a better vocalist than he was a guitarist.

Yes, at guitar, nothing special, at vocals and writing music, that's where he shone, IMO.
 
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