5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%
  • Total voters
    437
State of Epicicity said:
I think Cliff was looking for the most persuasive arguments and an idea in general of how the Fractal user base considers this. I don't at all think it was about which option was most popular.
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I guess you're right. A minority of user base is in this forum, the most "active & curious": we search, ask, discuss. Outside there is a majority of user that don't RTFM, unbox the unit, cable it, and judge by factory preset & visual position knob. Well, maybe not all, but lot of them! :p
 
Interesting, how can I calculate the exact same presence control value with new taper that will match the previous one?
 
Smilzo said:
I guess you're right. A minority of user base is in this forum, the most "active & curious": we search, ask, discuss. Outside there is a majority of user that don't RTFM, unbox the unit, cable it, and judge by factory preset & visual position knob. Well, maybe not all, but lot of them! :p
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I don't really have a good bread on how the majority of people use or think about the unit. My guess for Cliff's reasoning is that he follows his own muse, that he can be persuaded by the right argument, but that his instinct and analysis are the final arbiter of his focus.
 
State of Epicicity said:
I don't really have a good bread on how the majority of people use or think about the unit. My guess for Cliff's reasoning is that he follows his own muse, that he can be persuaded by the right argument, but that his instinct and analysis are the final arbiter of his focus.
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Yep!

Plus, the simple fact that he wants to hear from his customers, on lots of things. I get the distinct impression he really cares about what we collectively think. And not just because he wants to please his customers so he can continue to sell units either. I feel it's bigger than that. Most likely comes straight from his, very obvious, passion.

He could've been sitting squarely on the middle of the fence on this topic, wanted to hear arguments for the choices, and even though he picked the one that got the minority of votes, it could've been some of those comments that swayed him to the decision he ended up making.
 
Well, I fired up my 5150 and compared it to the model with the authentic presence taper. I like it a lot! Mirroring the presence settings got me so much closer to a match and I'm really happy that Cliff made the move.

The new tube algorithm has a pretty significant effect as well and I'm noticing differences in tubes a lot more than I used to (which is a good thing).

The model has more 500-ish Hz honk and is less compressed than my amp, but I'm getting closer after messing with bias and impedance trying to locate the elements that enhance that area, but also ducking the 500Hz GEQ slider down a couple dB gets it close without digging into advanced parameters.

If I'm playing chords and switching between them, they're nearly identical. I'm working on getting the pick attack and compression dialed in, which is more of a feel thing than a sonic thing. Things are sounding great overall and I'm still loving this box after all these years.
 
unix-guy said:
Me: What about ____?
Her: No
Me: how about ____?
Her: No
Me: Maybe ____?
Her: No
Me: uhhh... Well what do you want?
Her: oh, whatever you want is fine
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A nearly daily Q/A scenario in our house! I have thought about printing up a menu based around what is available to make in the house and let her order just like she would in a restaurant!! I am sure she will come up with some response that will have me face palming though!!!
 
York Audio said:
Well, I fired up my 5150 and compared it to the model with the authentic presence taper. I like it a lot! Mirroring the presence settings got me so much closer to a match and I'm really happy that Cliff made the move.

The new tube algorithm has a pretty significant effect as well and I'm noticing differences in tubes a lot more than I used to (which is a good thing).

The model has more 500-ish Hz honk and is less compressed than my amp, but I'm getting closer after messing with bias and impedance trying to locate the elements that enhance that area, but also ducking the 500Hz GEQ slider down a couple dB gets it close without digging into advanced parameters.

If I'm playing chords and switching between them, they're nearly identical. I'm working on getting the pick attack and compression dialed in, which is more of a feel thing than a sonic thing. Things are sounding great overall and I'm still loving this box after all these years.
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If you are comparing the amp through a load box and an IR the model will be more compressed and have more midrange unless you turn all the speaker stuff off (Speaker Drive, Speaker Compression, etc.).

A load box into an IR is not as realistic as our models because a load box is a static impedance whereas our models use dynamic speaker impedance and simulate the effects of voice coil heating and speaker distortion.
 
FractalAudio said:
If you are comparing the amp through a load box and an IR the model will be more compressed and have more midrange unless you turn all the speaker stuff off (Speaker Drive, Speaker Compression, etc.).

A load box into an IR is not as realistic as our models because a load box is a static impedance whereas our models use dynamic speaker impedance and simulate the effects of voice coil heating and speaker distortion.
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That's very interesting. I used the amp through the LB-2 and had the model set to the LB-2 UK curve with Speaker Drive and Speaker Compression turned off with both signals going into the same IR loader in my DAW (no cab block).

I was finding the model to be LESS compressed than my amp with Master Volume on both set to about 2.5, which shouldn't introduce any virtual speaker distortion I imagine.

It's not a big deal though. It still sounds great and I don't expect your physical amp to sound identical to mine since they can vary A LOT from piece to piece. Thanks for all of your hard work!
 
laxu said:
If I were to buy a real 5150, knowing about the presence control I'd probably want to mod it with a better pot taper to make it more useful...
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After this exhaustive thread it would seem like a cool option to do but if some random amp tech was like "trust me bro lets tweak the presence pot taper" I think a person would be more like... well, the 5150's are pretty damn well received as is... lets just leave it as stock, its not really a problem for others so why change this one.

... Which is also why the authentic representation is the best way to go. Great thread been a good read.
 
[Nathan] said:
After this exhaustive thread it would seem like a cool option to do but if some random amp tech was like "trust me bro lets tweak the presence pot taper" I think a person would be more like... well, the 5150's are pretty damn well received as is... lets just leave it as stock, its not really a problem for others so why change this one.
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How is this example any different from the rest of the discussion in this thread?

It's physical vs virtual, but the usefulness of the change is still down to user preferences...
 
York Audio said:
Well, I fired up my 5150 and compared it to the model with the authentic presence taper. I like it a lot! Mirroring the presence settings got me so much closer to a match and I'm really happy that Cliff made the move.

The new tube algorithm has a pretty significant effect as well and I'm noticing differences in tubes a lot more than I used to (which is a good thing).

The model has more 500-ish Hz honk and is less compressed than my amp, but I'm getting closer after messing with bias and impedance trying to locate the elements that enhance that area, but also ducking the 500Hz GEQ slider down a couple dB gets it close without digging into advanced parameters.

If I'm playing chords and switching between them, they're nearly identical. I'm working on getting the pick attack and compression dialed in, which is more of a feel thing than a sonic thing. Things are sounding great overall and I'm still loving this box after all these years.
Click to expand...
Working on old amps, I found out that often the culprit of compression/smoothness are weak electrolytic caps! ;)
 
Because i never put the presence past 4 on a real 5150, i tried the sweep on mine yesterday. True that there’s not much change until the top end. Maybe they did that because its already a bright amp and high presence will kill the front row lol. Turned it back to 4 and continued on.

Also learned I have a volume swell problem so it has to see my tech in 2024 :/
 
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