4CM high squeal

trancegodz

trancegodz

Fractal Fanatic
I created a 4CM preset like shown in the manual, but I'm getting a high pitched squeal when trying to use the 4CM method on page 28 of the manual. (this squeal happens even with the guitar volume turned off, and the Axe FXIII volume pedal turned off.

The manual says to use a humbuster cable from output 3L to the front of the amp. I did that. (I plugged the black end of the humbuster cable into the Axe FX. Is that correct?)

It doesn't say what kind of cable to use from FX send of the amp to Input 4 so I used a regular guitar cable for that.

It says to use a humbuster cable from Output 4L to the FX return of the amp. I did that. (I plugged the black end of the humbuster cable into the Axe FX.)

I am using a Marshall Plexi into a Fryette Power Station, into a Marshall 4x12 cab. The Fryette Power Station has an FX Loop which I am using. It also has a button for ground lift but it squeals no matter if it's pushed in or not. One way squeals a little louder. I have the volume about talking level and I am about 15 feet away from the amp.

Note: I was able to get the 2 cable method on page 30 working with no squeal by engaging the ground lift button on the Fryette Power Station, but not the 4CM method. There is a high pitched squeal using the 4CM. What am I doing wrong?
 
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Funkmaskin said:
Sounds like digital feedback. Are you sure your preset doesn’t create any possible feedback loops?
Click to expand...
I don't think that's it.

I just watched a 4CM video from Leon Todd who sets it up completely differently from what it says in the manual, using different in and out blocks than what is in the manual and he didn't use any humbuster cables.



It makes me wonder if me using humbuster cables like it says on page 28 of the manual is the problem. I'm looking for a couple of extra regular cables to try it and see if it makes any difference using regular cables.
 
It's a known issue with the Power Station. It's not a fault with the PS but just how all the connected gear work with it.

See this video:



The solution is as @Keybi said, you want an isolation box. The Behringer should do the job, or a Lehle P-Split for something nicer. I think Palmer makes a few too.
 
trancegodz said:
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately don't have one on hand tonight.

The Fryettre does have a ground loop button. I was able to get the 2 cable method on page 30 working with no squeal by engaging the ground lift button on the Fryette Power Station, but not the 4CM method.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, neither the hum cable nor the ground lift can completely separate the ground. So in difficult cases, the only option is to try to galvanically decouple the signal. I once saved a Three Doors Down concert years ago because the guitarist's amplifier was humming badly with the 4-cable method. The cause at the time was TC's G-System. The G-System was a PITA in terms of the 4cm. At that time I decoupled the loop with an EBTCH HUM ELIMINATOR and the input of the AMP with a PLI from Palmer.
But the latter is not so good, because the guitar signal then becomes low impedance and can affect the sound. But since only active guitars were used at that time, this was not so important. But I would start with the loop.
You can also try using a Furman stabilizer/filter. This is the more expensive option. But whether it helps?
 
I had a squeal issue in a similar setup with attenuator and determined that the physical Axfx output knob for the signal to the amp's fx return could not be at max - 1/2 way is all my amp with attenuator would tolerate without the squealing.
 
Petrocelli said:
have you also your PC/Mac connected? Disconnect the USB!
Use the same socket for powering amp and fractal!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip. I just tried that but it did not fix the squealing. I disconnected the usb from my iMac, and plugged the Axe FXIII into the same power strip as my Marshall Plexi and Fryette Power Station. Flipping the ground lift on the Power Station just changes the squeal to another pitch.

I also disconnected my studio monitors from the Axe FXIII just in case, but it did not help.
 
sprint said:
I had a squeal issue in a similar setup with attenuator and determined that the physical Axfx output knob for the signal to the amp's fx return could not be at max - 1/2 way is all my amp with attenuator would tolerate without the squealing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip. I just tried that but it didn't fix it.
 
Keybi said:
Unfortunately, neither the hum cable nor the ground lift can completely separate the ground. So in difficult cases, the only option is to try to galvanically decouple the signal. I once saved a Three Doors Down concert years ago because the guitarist's amplifier was humming badly with the 4-cable method. The cause at the time was TC's G-System. The G-System was a PITA in terms of the 4cm. At that time I decoupled the loop with an EBTCH HUM ELIMINATOR and the input of the AMP with a PLI from Palmer.
But the latter is not so good, because the guitar signal then becomes low impedance and can affect the sound. But since only active guitars were used at that time, this was not so important. But I would start with the loop.
You can also try using a Furman stabilizer/filter. This is the more expensive option. But whether it helps?
Click to expand...
Thank you! Is this the right Ebtech Hum Eliminator? It looks like they have two different versions of it. I'll order one tonight.

Amazon product ASIN B00101WA4C
I'm not sure I completely understand. Are you saying I should not use a PLI at the input of the Marshall, just use the Ebtech in the fx loop of the Fryette Power Station?

Or do I need two Ebtech's, one for the input of the Marshall and one for the fx loop of the Fryette?
Where would I put the Hum Eliminator, at the fx send or the fx return in the Fryette?

I do currently have my Axe FXIII plugged into a Furman PL-Plus.
 
laxu said:
It's a known issue with the Power Station. It's not a fault with the PS but just how all the connected gear work with it.

The solution is as @Keybi said, you want an isolation box. The Behringer should do the job, or a Lehle P-Split for something nicer. I think Palmer makes a few too.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I'll be calling around to see if any of the local music stores have something that would work today. If not, then I'll buy one online.
 
Thanks for the tips everyone!
For those of you considering getting a Fryette Power Station. Here is what I have found so far:

Using just the Fryette Power Station with a Marshall Plexi and 4x12 Marshall cab, it creates a ground loop that causes a high pitched theramin like squeal. Pushing the ground lift on the back of the Fryette corrects the problem.

I have no problems at all using the Fryette Power Station with a Marshall Plexi and 4x12 Marshall cab, and a traditional pedalboard into the front of the Marshall, with Eventide effects in the FX Loop.

The Fryette Power Station sounds great with my traditional setup. You can use it with 4, 8, or 16 ohm amps which is great because I have all of the above.

The problem comes when trying to use the Fryette Power Station with the Axe FXIII in it's FX loop.

I created a 4CM preset like shown in the Axe FX III manual on page 28, but I'm getting a high pitched squeal when trying to use the 4CM. I am about 15 feet from my amp and with the volume at talking level.
(this squeal happens even with the guitar volume turned off, and the Axe FXIII volume pedal turned off.

Note: I was able to get the 2 cable method on page 30 of the Axe XIII manual working with no squeal by engaging the ground lift button on the Fryette Power Station, but not the 4CM method. There is a high pitched squeal using the 4CM.

So far I have tried:

1. Plugging everything I am using (including the Axe FXIII into the same power strip.
2. Disconnecting the usb from the Axe FXIII to my iMac and turning off the computer.
3. Unplugging my studio monitors.
4. Using humbuster cables exactly how it says to in the manual on page 28.
5. Using regular cables instead of humbuster cables.

I found these two videos about mystery squeals using the Fryette Power Station. Neither sound exactly like the squeals I am getting, but it is probably ground loop issues.





I will be buying a hum eliminator to try next. Do I need one or two of them? What brands do you guys recommend?
Where exactly do you put them? In front of the amp and in the fx loop, just in front of the amp, or just in the fx loop?
 
trancegodz said:
Thank you! Is this the right Ebtech Hum Eliminator? It looks like they have two different versions of it. I'll order one tonight.

Amazon product ASIN B00101WA4C
I'm not sure I completely understand. Are you saying I should not use a PLI at the input of the Marshall, just use the Ebtech in the fx loop of the Fryette Power Station?

Or do I need two Ebtech's, one for the input of the Marshall and one for the fx loop of the Fryette?
Where would I put the Hum Eliminator, at the fx send or the fx return in the Fryette?

I do currently have my Axe FXIII plugged into a Furman PL-Plus.
Click to expand...
The Ebtech offers 2 channels. One for send and one for return. Thus it is suitable for the loop.
Maybe this is already sufficient.
The PLI from palmer is single channel. For this reason a good choice for the input of the Marshall.
 
trancegodz said:
Thanks for the tips everyone!
For those of you considering getting a Fryette Power Station. Here is what I have found so far:

Using just the Fryette Power Station with a Marshall Plexi and 4x12 Marshall cab, it creates a ground loop that causes a high pitched theramin like squeal. Pushing the ground lift on the back of the Fryette corrects the problem.

I have no problems at all using the Fryette Power Station with a Marshall Plexi and 4x12 Marshall cab, and a traditional pedalboard into the front of the Marshall, with Eventide effects in the FX Loop.

The Fryette Power Station sounds great with my traditional setup. You can use it with 4, 8, or 16 ohm amps which is great because I have all of the above.

The problem comes when trying to use the Fryette Power Station with the Axe FXIII in it's FX loop.

I created a 4CM preset like shown in the Axe FX III manual on page 28, but I'm getting a high pitched squeal when trying to use the 4CM. I am about 15 feet from my amp and with the volume at talking level.
(this squeal happens even with the guitar volume turned off, and the Axe FXIII volume pedal turned off.

Note: I was able to get the 2 cable method on page 30 of the Axe XIII manual working with no squeal by engaging the ground lift button on the Fryette Power Station, but not the 4CM method. There is a high pitched squeal using the 4CM.

So far I have tried:

1. Plugging everything I am using (including the Axe FXIII into the same power strip.
2. Disconnecting the usb from the Axe FXIII to my iMac and turning off the computer.
3. Unplugging my studio monitors.
4. Using humbuster cables exactly how it says to in the manual on page 28.
5. Using regular cables instead of humbuster cables.

I found these two videos about mystery squeals using the Fryette Power Station. Neither sound exactly like the squeals I am getting, but it is probably ground loop issues.





I will be buying a hum eliminator to try next. Do I need one or two of them? What brands do you guys recommend?
Where exactly do you put them? In front of the amp and in the fx loop, just in front of the amp, or just in the fx loop?
Click to expand...

I will be curious to follow up on your results. I have the same setup but haven't tried it yet in 4CM with the PowerStation but now I'm afraid to instantly hear noise or squealing. I will try this week.
 
GuitarGuy316 said:
I will be curious to follow up on your results. I have the same setup but haven't tried it yet in 4CM with the PowerStation but now I'm afraid to instantly hear noise or squealing. I will try this week.
Click to expand...
I will definitely let you know. I called every music store in the area and none of them had any hum eliminators in stock. I am going to order one of these three tonight on Amazon and will hopefully have them in about a week. Keybi said the Ebtech had worked well for him in the past. I wonder if any of these would work just as well?

Amazon product ASIN B00BARTW42
Amazon product ASIN B01L7P3WHO
Amazon product ASIN B00101WA4C
 
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