4CM high squeal

GuitarGuy316 said:
So if I'm reading this correctly, you need 1 ISO box to break the signal from the Fractal Send to the front input of the Amp?
Click to expand...

Dave from Fryette sent me this 4CM ground loop flow chart diagram and said "The isolation transformer in this drawing is the hum eliminator you are referring to. If you have a dual channel unit, you should only need to use one channel in this example. "

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Looking closely at the Fryette diagram and comparing it to the 4CM method on page 28 of the Axe FXIII manual, (if I am understanding them both correctly).

The Axe FXIII manual shows:
*Connect Guitar to Axe FXIII instrument input 1
*Connect Axe FXIII Output 3L to your amps main input
*Connect (Fryette) FX send to Axe FXIII Input 4L
*Connect (Fryette) FX return to Axe FXIII Output 4L

The Fryette diagram shows:
*Connect Guitar to multi-fx processor (Axe FX3) instrument input
*Connect Axe FX3's FX send (output 3L) to isolation transformer (hum eliminator) to your amps input
*Connect Axe FX3's FX return (input 4L) to Fryette FX send
*Connect Axe FX3's main out (output 4L) to Fryette FX return (flip the ground lift switch on the Power Station)
 
I've had a similar problem connecting my Axe III in 4CM with my JP2C a few months back in my touring rig and this was my experience.

I lifted the ground inside one of the trs ends of a humbuster cable going into the fx loop side and it improved the noise/ screech significantly. Note people say to do this at your own risk, there's plenty of articles online about this approach.

I also purchased the Radial StageBug SB6 that's around $150 to see if that was a better solution.
The results were almost identical to the noise reduction of my modified cable that had a ground lift.
Granted, it's the safer way if you don't want to tamper with your cables, avoid any possible shock, etc.

On top of that, my preset uses noise gate blocks in both the fx loop chain, and in the front chain to eliminate anything else further.
Now here's the kicker, I tried the same 4CM with my Mesa Mark V head with the noise gates bypassed, and my signal was dead silent.
I also have a Mesa Triaxis/2:90 setup that was connected with the same 4CM setup and it was near silent.

Just for fun, had a friend bring over his EVH 5150 Stealth connected to the Axe 4CM and the noise ratio was louder than my JP2C setup.
In conclusion, each amplifier may react differently to a 4CM setup from my personal experience.

Forgot to mention the cable paths. My inputs/outputs reflect my preset routing of how I managed the 4CM.
Guitar to Axe = standard instrument cable
JP input to Axe out1 = humbuster cable
JP fx send to Axe input 3 = ground lifted humbuster cable
JP fx return to Axe out4 = humbuster cable

Hope that helps!


 
Ibanezguy88 said:
I've had a similar problem connecting my Axe III in 4CM with my JP2C a few months back in my touring rig and this was my experience.

I lifted the ground inside one of the trs ends of a humbuster cable going into the fx loop side and it improved the noise/ screech significantly. Note people say to do this at your own risk, there's plenty of articles online about this approach.

I also purchased the Radial StageBug SB6 that's around $150 to see if that was a better solution.
The results were almost identical to the noise reduction of my modified cable that had a ground lift.
Granted, it's the safer way if you don't want to tamper with your cables, avoid any possible shock, etc.

On top of that, my preset uses noise gate blocks in both the fx loop chain, and in the front chain to eliminate anything else further.
Now here's the kicker, I tried the same 4CM with my Mesa Mark V head with the noise gates bypassed, and my signal was dead silent.
I also have a Mesa Triaxis/2:90 setup that was connected with the same 4CM setup and it was near silent.

Just for fun, had a friend bring over his EVH 5150 Stealth connected to the Axe 4CM and the noise ratio was louder than my JP2C setup.
In conclusion, each amplifier may react differently to a 4CM setup from my personal experience.

Forgot to mention the cable paths. My inputs/outputs reflect my preset routing of how I managed the 4CM.
Guitar to Axe = standard instrument cable
JP input to Axe out1 = humbuster cable
JP fx send to Axe input 3 = ground lifted humbuster cable
JP fx return to Axe out4 = humbuster cable

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
Thanks I think we are talking about this issue in context of using a PowerStation as part of the 4CM so it’s similar but we believe the noise is due to using the loadbox in the signal path to run an IR and output through the real cab.
 
GuitarGuy316 said:
Thanks I think we are talking about this issue in context of using a PowerStation as part of the 4CM so it’s similar but we believe the noise is due to using the loadbox in the signal path to run an IR and output through the real cab.
Click to expand...
I hear you, I just figured the PowerStation would react similarly in the 4CM I mentioned. In short, I believe you need to break ground from one of the fx loop cables going to the Axe. The main reason those other iso boxes are cheap, is due to using very cheap components like the main transformers/ capacitors inside those $15-50$ units.
On other forums, people complained that it cut out a lot of highs and lows from their overall tone.
That's why I went the Radial route, they're stuff is built to last and I always see Radial products used in big tours.

I also have a PowerStation, the 50 watt ver 2, If I have time this weekend, I'll try to connect a 4CM similar to your setup to see if my solution
can help that case.
 
Ibanezguy88 said:
I hear you, I just figured the PowerStation would react similarly in the 4CM I mentioned. In short, I believe you need to break ground from one of the fx loop cables going to the Axe. The main reason those other iso boxes are cheap, is due to using very cheap components like the main transformers/ capacitors inside those $15-50$ units.
On other forums, people complained that it cut out a lot of highs and lows from their overall tone.
That's why I went the Radial route, they're stuff is built to last and I always see Radial products used in big tours.

I also have a PowerStation, the 50 watt ver 2, If I have time this weekend, I'll try to connect a 4CM similar to your setup to see if my solution
can help that case.
Click to expand...
So the Lehle P ISO between Output1 Axe and Input Amp is maybe not the way to go ...?
I ll waiting for your test , PS2A here too .

​

 
I have a PS and had the same issue. It has to do with using the fx loop on the PS and creates an audio ground loop. The ground lift button on the PS sometimes corrects or mitigates it somewhat, but the only true solution was to isolate the audio going to the PS loop. I used a Radial Stage Bug, and I also use a Lehle P-Split III on my input line. I have both send AND return going through the Stage Bug.

The Ebtech Hum eliminator will do exactly the same thing, and probably just as well. Use it on the PS effects loop lines. If you still experience any issues, you may need one additional iso going into the input of the Axe. I noticed some slight microphonics in my setup, but adding in the Lehle as well fixed all the problems I was experiencing.
 
I also have the Radial Stagebug SB-6 for this reason and can vouch it works well for this. I don't notice much tone loss at all. It's a nice effective tool to have in the bag as it does a few things. It has saved me a couple of times when needed. YMMV
 
tnjazz said:
I have a PS and had the same issue. It has to do with using the fx loop on the PS and creates an audio ground loop. The ground lift button on the PS sometimes corrects or mitigates it somewhat, but the only true solution was to isolate the audio going to the PS loop. I used a Radial Stage Bug, and I also use a Lehle P-Split III on my input line. I have both send AND return going through the Stage Bug.

The Ebtech Hum eliminator will do exactly the same thing, and probably just as well. Use it on the PS effects loop lines. If you still experience any issues, you may need one additional iso going into the input of the Axe. I noticed some slight microphonics in my setup, but adding in the Lehle as well fixed all the problems I was experiencing.
Click to expand...
My setup makes the same high pitch noise but I’m not using the effects loop on the PS100.
 
I got the Pyle PHE 400 and tried it today using the 4CM, with a Marshall Plexi, Fryette PS-2A, 4x12 cab, and Axe FXIII.
I put the Pyle PHE-400 between output 3L and the front of the Marshall Plexi.

It works! The ground loop squeal is gone!

I set outputs 3 and 4 full up on the Axe FXIII, and set the FX level on the Fryette PS-2a to low. So far everything is working as I hoped it would. (I used all regular cables.) I have two humbuster cables but I wanted to try it with regular cables first. It appears I might not need to use the humbuster cables.

Problem solved!

Amazon product ASIN B00BARTW42
I have yet to try the Fryette PS-2A as a silent load box. Have any of you used it for that successfully?
 
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