4 cable method FM9 turbo questions

TSJMajesty said:
I was just thinking the same thing.

And admittedly, I've read the thread fast, but it seems like you've spent some real money in your search to integrate modelling into your rig, and with wanting more convenience for gigging, it sounds like you're looking for a lighter solution overall. But I didn't notice much in the way of just fully embracing the modelling, and getting some quality power and monitoring components.

I've read many posts here of guys running powered FRFR, and others using power amps and cabs, in live settings, and totally feeling and hearing it sound just as good as a mic'd amp.

If I were you, I'd just ditch the 4cm, and go all-in, and focus on getting the right end-of-chain gear that'll make you happy about giving up the tube amps. Many others have done it, and say they've never looked back. (I can't personally comment on that from my own experience because that's not how I use the Fractal stuff right now.)
Click to expand...
I am totally down to try it, I have seen so many different speaker set ups and recently saw Neal shone using these really special loud speakers but I have also seen mission engineering i am going to need to use this device a couple different ways and I would love to try it out in all the ways listed can you tell me what the top cabs and power heads are for this and secondly which FrFr is the one to get?

Also is there a person I can hire to truly capture my current rigs in the fractal world

I think a aha moment just happened the RJM would probably fix some of these issues and allow me to isolate to hear it too. Maybe some ways to get around some this with just being clever with switching so the effects are truly bypassed when I’m not using them
 
Linkccr23 said:
can you tell me what the top cabs and power heads are for this and secondly which FrFr is the one to get?
Click to expand...
Sorry, no. I'm not knowledgeable enough about those choices, yet. But others here are, and there's some good threads here about those choices.

I do know there's a very good speaker made by Celestion, the F12-X200 that's designed for modelers, but also to give that "real amp" sound. I actually bought a pair myself with the intent to build 2 floor wedges, but I'm not gigging atm, and honestly having so much fun just using my Axe III with headphones, that I haven't gotten around to building them yet. There's a really good, and lengthy, thread about them, and several guys have posted good things about them.

The one thing that seems to ring true, is that no one solution is right for everyone, even among the ones specifically looking for just a gigging solution (as opposed to say, also recording), so you'll most likely still have to try them for yourself. But there seems to be somewhat of a consensus with certain brands/models.

Let me check my bookmarked threads. I read a lot of the stuff posted here with an eye towards if I ever decide to gig again, and try to save whatever I think I'd need to revisit, (because I'd need to know the same exact answer as the question you asked) so I may have a link or 2 that might help.
 
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/frfr-speaker-recommendation.184512/

That one will get you started, and if you search, you'll definitely find more. And there's several threads about the Celestion F12-X200 that you may want to also check out.

And btw, the reason I even mentioned the F12, is because you saying how important what you're hearing is to how you play. Celestion says this:

"However the lighter moving mass and straighter sided cone of the type commonly used with guitar speakers gives the X200 the feel and live response of a traditional guitar speaker delivering all the physical feedback you’d expect from playing through a conventional guitar rig. It’s not just FRFR, it’s Full Range LIVE Response.
Used with amp modellers or IRs in a backline cab or a wedge monitor on stage or in the studio it doesn’t just sound like great guitar tone it feels like it too."
 
If you are looking for a person to help set up a touring rig, maybe see if someone like Cooper Carter can be hired. He’s done plenty of work with top professionals and knows what’s needed for a variety of setups. I’d imagine a short consultation call could save you a lot of time and energy of experimenting your way through it.

Subject to his availability and willingness of course.
 
Hellbat said:
If you are looking for a person to help set up a touring rig, maybe see if someone like Cooper Carter can be hired. He’s done plenty of work with top professionals and knows what’s needed for a variety of setups. I’d imagine a short consultation call could save you a lot of time and energy of experimenting your way through it.

Subject to his availability and willingness of course.
Click to expand...
This is a perfect idea, I hope he will help me, would totally be worth the money!!
 
TSJMajesty said:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/frfr-speaker-recommendation.184512/

That one will get you started, and if you search, you'll definitely find more. And there's several threads about the Celestion F12-X200 that you may want to also check out.

And btw, the reason I even mentioned the F12, is because you saying how important what you're hearing is to how you play. Celestion says this:

"However the lighter moving mass and straighter sided cone of the type commonly used with guitar speakers gives the X200 the feel and live response of a traditional guitar speaker delivering all the physical feedback you’d expect from playing through a conventional guitar rig. It’s not just FRFR, it’s Full Range LIVE Response.
Used with amp modellers or IRs in a backline cab or a wedge monitor on stage or in the studio it doesn’t just sound like great guitar tone it feels like it too."
Click to expand...
Check this out really neat!!

Cab in the room video
 
Linkccr23 said:
How are you running your fractal stuff
Click to expand...

My III stays in my studio where it’s my main audio interface. My FM9 is my live rig, which feeds a Duncan PS-170 and a TC BAM200 to power the two 2x12 cabs. I run the rig onstage in stereo, with a tap off the amp block feeding a line of mono post-amp effects that FOH can take for a DI if they want. I figured that was the best way to be selfish onstage while FOH gets what they need.

I’ll try to pop on and help ya out with some lower gain tones, my work week is a bit hectic right now but I’ll hit ya up in a PM when I’ve got a little extra time.
 
RevDrucifer said:
My III stays in my studio where it’s my main audio interface. My FM9 is my live rig, which feeds a Duncan PS-170 and a TC BAM200 to power the two 2x12 cabs. I run the rig onstage in stereo, with a tap off the amp block feeding a line of mono post-amp effects that FOH can take for a DI if they want. I figured that was the best way to be selfish onstage while FOH gets what they need.

I’ll try to pop on and help ya out with some lower gain tones, my work week is a bit hectic right now but I’ll hit ya up in a PM when I’ve got a little extra time.
Click to expand...
Do you think this exact setup would be a good set up for me then?

And thank you soo so much for helping out!! Means a lot to me!!! Really appreciate it!!
 
Linkccr23 said:
Do you think this exact setup would be a good set up for me then?

And thank you soo so much for helping out!! Means a lot to me!!! Really appreciate it!!
Click to expand...

Well, my setups certainly work for me and I have a hard time finding a reason my FM9/live rig won’t work. I’ve tested it in rehearsals with a PA and aside from the IR’s I choose to go to FOH not being exact matches of my existing cabs, it still does the trick and I’m content with the FOH tones (only tested through as smaller PA though).

While I don’t need to feel my pants flapping from volume, I DO prefer the interaction of a guitar/guitar speakers in a live setting. In the studio I don’t care. Running into actual cabs, especially in stereo, gives me all the fun that gigging has to offer in regards to playing guitar live. FOH still gets what they want/need and I just really use my cabs to monitor myself/feedback.

And FWIW, I would have gone with two TC BAM200’s instead of a Duncan 170, simply because the BAM’s are $170 a pop for 200 watts and the 170 is $400 for 170 watts. I actually prefer the BAM a little more as it seems to have a bit sweeter higher end, but YMMV. I don’t use either with the EQ flat, I use the EQ’s on the power amps to make up for differences in the room I’m in so I never have to tweak my presets at a gig!
 
RevDrucifer said:
Well, my setups certainly work for me and I have a hard time finding a reason my FM9/live rig won’t work. I’ve tested it in rehearsals with a PA and aside from the IR’s I choose to go to FOH not being exact matches of my existing cabs, it still does the trick and I’m content with the FOH tones (only tested through as smaller PA though).
Click to expand...
the bigger the system the better. If you're happy thru a small PA, just wait. Every time my AX8 hit a big PA with arrays, holy shit it sounded incredible.
 
I don't have time to read this entire thread, but I'm using my FM9 in 4CM with my RedPlate Magica and it's amazing. I use Humbuster cables as described in the user manual and have no noise, no noticeable latency, and unbelievable tones and flexibility. I also set up a Voodoo Lab Control Switcher that allows the FM9 to switch amp channels per scene as desired. Best rig I've ever had.
 
The Magica is certainly a great amp. I have run 4CM with my RedPlate Blues Machine 66 on occasion and have not noticed any coloration of the amp tones when the effects are bypassed. I have been very pleased with the FM9 in 4CM on the few occasions that I have used it that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Den
Deadpool_25 said:
Use XLR to TS cables and make sure you have things setup correctly.
Click to expand...

But that's the problem - when is using XLR to TS 'optimal'?

Doesn't this necessarily mean connecting a balanced source to an unbalanced input, and all that results from that (including losing any benefit of the balanced output, and likely a drop in level), plus any issues from impedance mismatches? Wouldn't the optimal method be to insert a device that appropriately converts from - for example - a balanced line level XLR output to an unbalanced instrument level (or, depending on the device, line level) input, like a re-amper?
 
Rumbletone said:
But that's the problem - when is using XLR to TS 'optimal'?

Doesn't this necessarily mean connecting a balanced source to an unbalanced input, and all that results from that (including losing any benefit of the balanced output, and likely a drop in level), plus any issues from impedance mismatches? Wouldn't the optimal method be to insert a device that appropriately converts from - for example - a balanced line level XLR output to an unbalanced instrument level (or, depending on the device, line level) input, like a re-amper?
Click to expand...
It works and works well. Sounds great and has no noise issues. Fractal literally recommends using Humbuster cables which are balanced to unbalanced. It works well with no issues I've seen. Maybe you're overthinking it.
 
Deadpool_25 said:
It works and works well. Sounds great and has no noise issues. Fractal literally recommends using Humbuster cables which are balanced to unbalanced. It works well with no issues I've seen. Maybe you're overthinking it.
Click to expand...
But they are unbalanced in a special way... ;)
 
Deadpool_25 said:
It works and works well. Sounds great and has no noise issues. Fractal literally recommends using Humbuster cables which are balanced to unbalanced. It works well with no issues I've seen. Maybe you're overthinking it.
Click to expand...

Thanks - yes I understand the humbuster scenario, but that's only applicable for the non-XLR outs - for example, in 4cm that could be using the humbuster 1/4" jacks from output1 or output3. But that's not applicable to the inputs, which are necessarily part of the 4cm. And I'm not actually seeing a scenario where use of an XLR to TS would make sense in 4cm - are you suggesting that the outputs from the FM9 to the amp's input and FX return don't use the output3 1/4" humbuster outputs as recommended in the manual and instead use the XLR outputs 1 or 2 using an XLR to TS cable?

Re "It works well with no issues I've seen. Maybe you're overthinking it", the reason I was asking about the detailed connections is due to posts above that using 4cm DOES adversely colour the tone and the comments that Fractal has apparently stated that the FM9 is not optimized for this use (if I'm understanding those comments correctly). So part of what I'm trying to understand is what the optimal way would be to connect the FM9 for 4cm to an amp - for example, is it using one of the humbuster outs with a humbuster cable to go to the input of the amp (the manual recommends using output3 for 4cm, since it is 'unity gain'), then use a TS cable from the amp's unbalanced FX send to the balanced input2 or input3, then again a humbuster output using a humbuster cable to the amp's FX return (which I think is what the manual is recommending)?

Or, for example, would it sound more transparent to convert - for example, using an EbTech level shifter or using remapers/DIs - between the FM9's balanced ins and outs and the unbalanced input, FX send, and FX return of the amp (which would be the traditional way to connect balanced line level gear to unbalanced instrument level gear)?

And does it depend on the amp - for example, although most if not all tube amp FX loops are unbalanced, some are designed to be instrument level and some are line level and many cases it seems fall somewhere in between and may vary drastically depending on the amp's settings (for example, if the amp's preamp is set for lower gain vs higher, and depending on whether there is a pre-loop master volume and/or FX send level)?
 
unix-guy said:
But they are unbalanced in a special way... ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed - it's not just a 'balanced output' if I understand Fractal's comments - the third contact it seems is detecting the voltage differential (?) and compensating accordingly. It's not just the common method of using a TRS cable and lifting the audio ground to break a ground loop (which it seemed I always needed to do in rack rigs when connecting a tube preamp to a balanced looper like the SwitchBlade 8B/GL - but which always worked!) - note that, unlike with the humbuster cables, the shield here is not connected to the sleeve on the amp end:

1662747203238.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom