2nd go at an Ultra

[Origin8tor]

Just received a 2nd Ultra after nearly losing the will to live setting up the first about 8 months ago, Im now going back to basics, Im simply trying to run the Axe FX in the serial loop of my Marshall 6100, before dialling in any effects Im trying to get the level and tone between bypass and non bypass the same!.
So Ive started with a blank patch, all shunts, no effects.
On I/O Ive set the input to rear, Input 1 select left only, Output 1 mode copy L->R.
On Global Ive set power and cabs off, with no output 1 eq, reverb mix and effects mix to 0%.
So the marshall Preamp is passing through the Ultra before hitting the Marshall power amp.
With bypass on all is fine (so I assume my levels and cables are correct?)
With bypass off i get a drop in volume and altered tonal characteristics.
Has anyone else had this problem or can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Dpoirier]

...
With bypass off i get a drop in volume...

Levels... you have an input level control, and an output level control, plus your amp's loop itself has a level (adjustable or not, it is probably not at unity gain)

... and altered tonal characteristics.

You're going through an effect loop (i.e. altered tone) plus an A-to-D conversion, then through the Axe-FX, a D-to-A conversion, and back into the return side of the effects loop. I think this is plenty to explain changed tone.

 

[Origin8tor]

Thanks for the reply. Im pretty sure my levels are set correctly as its a serial loop so everything I can hear is passing through the Axe FX, its just the effect of pressing the Axe bypass button.

I'm sure I remember reading something on this forum (which Ive searched for and cant find) about the base (unaffected) level being 8ish db down?

 

[Dpoirier]

Well, output 2 is 6dB lower output level than output 1... but again, there are level knobs (both input and output), just adjust the input so that the red LED is barely tickeld, and adjust your output knob so that the level is like you want. Or am I missing something?

 

[FractalAudio]

Don't worry about matching levels between bypassed and not. With bypass off there is a 6 dB drop in volume by design. This is to prevent clipping the outputs.

The reason the tone changes is due to the Fletcher-Munson effect. If something is louder we perceive it as sounding different. So the tone doesn't actually change, you just perceive that it has.

 

[Origin8tor]

Thanks, that makes sense, but because Im just using the Axe as an effects unit I want the PreAmp-PowerAmp integration to remain unchanged between effects on and effects off. I've just looked into the layout tab and noticed the main slider on the mix tab, If I change this to +6db should this (in theory) be eqaul with bypassed?

Just tried it, and it sounds pretty much smack on.

 

[FractalAudio]

Thanks, that makes sense, but because Im just using the Axe as an effects unit I want the PreAmp-PowerAmp integration to remain unchanged between effects on and effects off. I've just looked into the layout tab and noticed the main slider on the mix tab, If I change this to +6db should this (in theory) be eqaul with bypassed?

Just tried it, and it sounds pretty much smack on.

Yes, you can boost the level 6 dB there or in any block for that matter.

 

[prog_head]

I just looked and it appears that the 6100 has a parallel effects loop. If that is true, I would recommend using this effects loop for what you are wanting to do. A parallel effects loop will make it so that the Axe-Fx is only adding to the sound. This will leave the pure signal pure and allow you to add what you want from the Axe.

Personally, I think you are missing out on a lot but it is a great efx processor as well as a fabulous amp simulator.

 

[Origin8tor]

I just looked and it appears that the 6100 has a parallel effects loop. If that is true, I would recommend using this effects loop for what you are wanting to do. A parallel effects loop will make it so that the Axe-Fx is only adding to the sound. This will leave the pure signal pure and allow you to add what you want from the Axe.

I tried that however I get a horrid phasing which seems to be pretty common with parallel loops and effects units without the TC style killdry. Anyway Im pretty happy now with a simple +6db in the effects block, in fact I think it colours the sound less than my old TC Gsharp with killdry on in parallel.

Personally, I think you are missing out on a lot but it is a great efx processor as well as a fabulous amp simulator.

I orginally sent the Ultra back as I couldnt get a decent sound live, so I'm taking the softly softly approach this time, my next step is the 4 cable method.