250$ for Metallica Black Album Preset

[GreatGreen]

Even the amp what was used is up for debate. https://www.guitarworld.com/features/metallica-black-album-1991-interview

I guess this guy is crazy lol


Like I said much earlier these threads always bring the worst

Bob Rock himself, who personally built the scaffolding and moving blanket room for the cabs in the Black Album's recording sessions, and personally chose the mics and positioned them, and personally dialed in the amps, confirmed it was specifically a Mesa Mark III in an episode of Tone Talk not too long ago.

Also, in that video you linked, Ola is using a Mesa Mark slaved into JCM 800 approach, which is honestly pretty widely known to have been the setup Metallica used to record AJFA, not TBA. And even though Ola's video sounds great there, even if you could translate that video into a patch in the Axe-Fx, this thread's OP is meticulously A/B'ing whatever patches are presented against the actual album's rhythm guitar stems... so it still wouldn't be close enough for them.

I will agree with you that these threads do bring out "the worst" though.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I mean, one approach within this limitation is to use tone match just to find out in general the best EQ curves to set, then recreate them in Filter and Parametric EQ blocks, refining by ear. When you add smoothing to the tone match block, you can really see more easily the broad EQ curves you need to get where you want to go.

 

[axl-fx]

Not really. Bob Rock lays it out here as far as amps. Second video is where he talks about Mics making a huge difference...


How he Mic'd the black album

Bob Rock himself, who personally built the scaffolding and moving blanket room for the cabs in the Black Album's recording sessions, and personally chose the mics and positioned them, and personally dialed in the amps, confirmed it was specifically a Mesa Mark III in an episode of Tone Talk not too long ago.

Also, in that video you linked, Ola is using a Mesa Mark slaved into JCM 800 approach, which is honestly pretty widely known to have been the setup Metallica used to record AJFA, not TBA. And even though Ola's video sounds great there, even if you could translate that video into a patch in the Axe-Fx, this thread's OP is meticulously A/B'ing whatever patches are presented against the actual album's rhythm guitar stems... so it still wouldn't be close enough for them.

I will agree with you that these threads do bring out "the worst" though.

And you can DYOR on how other Bob Rock interviews (lol) , James interviews and studio photos conflict that videos statement about what amp was used on that album.

 

[axl-fx]

Can't wait till the Dude Looks Like A Lady preset challenge

Just wait for the Steven Tyler spandex tone match where the camera guy always try’s to ram the camera into his genitals.

 

[Unboxed]

Another interesting tidbit from Bob Rock at the 2:15:00 mark (below) about TBA

 

[dr bonkers]

Bob Rock & Mutt Lange tend to EQ the piss out of tracks in mix downs.

Never try to copy any bands they touched by copying photographs of amp settings unless you are prepared to use a lot of EQ at the end of your signal chains to match their mixed tones.

 

[phil92]

the 'no tone match' condition speaks to the OP's lack of comprehension what tone match is: an EQ. That's it, it's not going to affect the gain structure or dynamics. It's not a magic wand.

He has explained he wanted no tone match because he wants to dissect the preset and learn from it, that's a fair point in my opinion, but he can still do that with a TM block in there. You could achieve the same result with an RTA and tweaking any EQ. Or bake the TM into an IR.

 

[skydog]

Ok here is my take so
no tonematch, no daw, no axe fx, probably a boss metalcore in the clean channel of a roadking. 10 years ago. recording with the mic of the phone

This is brilliant.

 

[GreatGreen]

And you can DYOR on how other Bob Rock interviews (lol) , James interviews and studio photos conflict that videos statement about what amp was used on that album.

Right I'm sure Bob Rock, the same Bob Rock responsible for some of the best sounding albums ever put to tape, who is still smart and lucid as he can be, and who is about as passionate about this kind of thing as it gets, who does interviews all the time where the Black Album often comes up so it's continuously on his mind, just... forgot and lied about it on the spot to cover himself buy just pulling some random answer out of thin air and confidently going with it.

For the record, I'm sure there were photos of the IIC++ in the studio, along with the Mark III, along with the Mark IV, along with Marshalls and everything else that was in that studio at the time. It's Metallica we're talking about. They have all the gear.

 

[axl-fx]

Right I'm sure Bob Rock, the same Bob Rock responsible for some of the best sounding albums ever put to tape, who is still smart and lucid as he can be, and who is about as passionate about this kind of thing as it gets, who does interviews all the time where the Black Album often comes up so it's continuously on his mind, just... forgot and lied about it on the spot to cover himself buy just pulling some random answer out of thin air and confidently going with it.

For the record, I'm sure there were photos of the IIC++ in the studio, along with the Mark III, along with the Mark IV, along with Marshalls and everything else that was in that studio at the time. It's Metallica we're talking about. They have all the gear.

I’m glad how you casually ignore Hetfield himself saying it was a Mark II right after the album was made. Also Bob Rock himself saying the same thing in the past and I really don’t want to go there but Bob is getting up there in the years especially if you listen to his voice maybe it was a mistake. Forgetting and lying are two way different things as well, you implied that not I...

Did you experiment with different amps and cabinets?


Hetfield: “We tried a bunch of amps, but I ended up using the same Mesa/Boogie Simulclass Mark II that I've used on the last three albums. In Los Angeles there are a million amps you can try out, but none of them were up to snuff.


I guess Hetfield could have just plugged into a DSL and be done with it forget those Jose modded Marshall’s etc

 

[phil92]

you guys seem very passionate about the question whether Hetfield or Bob Rock are sharing accurate info when you have no other source.
A classic (quite inconsequential) he said, she said. But what else are you gonna do on a Sunday? Play guitar? Pah

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

I’m glad how you casually ignore Hetfield himself saying it was a Mark II right after the album was made. Also Bob Rock himself saying the same thing in the past and I really don’t want to go there but Bob is getting up there in the years especially if you listen to his voice maybe it was a mistake. Forgetting and lying are two way different things as well, you implied that not I...

Did you experiment with different amps and cabinets?


Hetfield: “We tried a bunch of amps, but I ended up using the same Mesa/Boogie Simulclass Mark II that I've used on the last three albums. In Los Angeles there are a million amps you can try out, but none of them were up to snuff.


I guess Hetfield could have just plugged into a DSL and be done with it forget those Jose modded Marshall’s etc

What makes you think James’s recollection is accurate and Bobs isn’t? I bring up sessions from a month ago and I have no idea what the hell I used to track with half the time. Apparently if he doesn’t have an exact amp made in a hollowed out tree by Keebler elves that was pissed on by some guy named Jose, he can’t make Metallica Metallica.
The success and sound of the record had nothing to do with the production, song writing, performances, the metric shit ton of outboard that was probably used during tracking/mixing. Nope. If that amp wasn’t there, full stop. Can’t do it. That amp no other or all bets are off.
Here’s a question: what if the board fried? Or the transformer? A major failure in that amp and there’s a good chance the sound won’t be the same.
Everyone just packs up and goes home? Record company says hey james, don’t worry about it. We know you don’t have your amp and can’t make the record for us. We’ll let you guys out of the contract. Don’t worry about the tour either. We understand?

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Bob Rock & Mutt Lange tend to EQ the piss out of tracks in mix downs.

Never try to copy any bands they touched by copying photographs of amp settings unless you are prepared to use a lot of EQ at the end of your signal chains to match their mixed tones.

CLA as well. I recall him saying guitars always need a million db of high end on them. I really admire his mixes so I tend to be aggressive from 5k on up. Always works well for me.

 

[axl-fx]

What makes you think James’s recollection is accurate and Bobs isn’t? I bring up sessions from a month ago and I have no idea what the hell I used to track with half the time. Apparently if he doesn’t have an exact amp made in a hollowed out tree by Keebler elves that was pissed on by some guy named Jose, he can’t make Metallica Metallica.
The success and sound of the record had nothing to do with the production, song writing, performances, the metric shit ton of outboard that was probably used during tracking/mixing. Nope. If that amp wasn’t there, full stop. Can’t do it. That amp no other or all bets are off.
Here’s a question: what if the board fried? Or the transformer? A major failure in that amp and there’s a good chance the sound won’t be the same.
Everyone just packs up and goes home? Record company says hey james, don’t worry about it. We know you don’t have your amp and can’t make the record for us. We’ll let you guys out of the contract. Don’t worry about the tour either. We understand?

Lmao what is more likely to be accurate the guitar players memory a few months after the album or a producers who has worked on multiple of their albums 30 years after the event almost in his 70’s?


I guess the gear doesn’t matter that much either!!

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/art...of_james_hetfields_stolen_marshall_amp-127741


Hetfield's modded Jose amp was tragically stolen along with a lot of other gear from the band's van outside a venue called The Channel [long-since closed] in Boston on January 22, 1984. It was a devastating loss for James. For many years, it was widely rumored to have contributed to the dark mood on the song "Fade To Black". And James later confirmed that was true,

"I'm sure I wasn’t really thinking of killing myself, but it was my favorite Marshall amp, man!"

Losing a beloved piece of gear is one thing, but it becomes a real issue when you're due to fly to Copenhagen, Denmark and begin recording your band's sophomore album in less than a month. Prior to the recording of the band's next album, which would come to be known as “Ride The Lightning”, James had to find a replacement. He tried some of Merciful Fate's amps but nothing was giving him the tone he wanted. He ended up buying a Marshall JMP 2203 head over in Denmark. An old interview with CKLN 88.1FM Radio, James claims the amp was a "French-Made Marshall", but the likely story is that the manual was in French. Marshall did tailor some of their marketing to the Scandinavian and various European markets. Some of them even had different looking backplates. But the amp was, by all accounts, a stock Marshall JMP 2203.

This amp was later modified by Ken Fischer [of Trainwreck Amps] to allow bypassing the preamp, but this wasn’t done until much later. For the recording of Ride The Lightning, James used an old Ibanez Tube Screamer to drive his signal into the amp a little harder, trying to replicate what the Jose Arredondo extra gain stage mod did for him. Hetfield is also reported to have used a Mesa Boogie Mark II as well.

The band recorded Ride The Lightning between February 20, 1984 and March 14, 1984. The tones on the record speak for themselves. On Master of Puppets, Kirk and James started using Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ that were allegedly slaved into the Marshalls used on Ride The Lightning. During The recording of the Black Album, Bob Rock and James Hetfield both got new Jose Modded Marshalls. According to James, Kirk also had one in the works, but Jose passed away before it was complete.

The theft of such a pivotal piece of gear during such a formative time in Metallica's history could have easily derailed a committed group of kids. At the time, James was uneasy about the idea of being singing and playing guitar. In fact, they had asked John Bush to front the band prior to the recording of "Ride The Lightning". Going into the studio with a new producer [Flemming Rasmussen] who had worked with Rainbow must have been somewhat intimidating and going in with a different gear setup than you're used to certainly doesn’t boost the confidence. Whatever chemistry was at play during the recording of Lightning must have worked because Rasmussen stayed on for the recording of "Master of Puppets" and "…And Justice For All". The rest, as they say, is history…

 

[rossipedia]

Jeez get a room you two

 

[phil92]

Jeez get a room you two

Exactly my thoughts. Gotta relieve that tension somehow.

 

[Scaleback]

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was the mark III on the black album. Just watch this shootout. To me, the mark III nails the black album tone the most out of all of them. The rest of the amps all come close, but sound a little off in one way or another. The Mark III sounds like what I hear on the record. It has a low end fullness and punch that the others are lacking.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Lmao what is more likely to be accurate the guitar players memory a few months after the album or a producers who has worked on multiple of their albums 30 years after the event almost in his 70’s?


I guess the gear doesn’t matter that much either!!

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/art...of_james_hetfields_stolen_marshall_amp-127741


Hetfield's modded Jose amp was tragically stolen along with a lot of other gear from the band's van outside a venue called The Channel [long-since closed] in Boston on January 22, 1984. It was a devastating loss for James. For many years, it was widely rumored to have contributed to the dark mood on the song "Fade To Black". And James later confirmed that was true,


Losing a beloved piece of gear is one thing, but it becomes a real issue when you're due to fly to Copenhagen, Denmark and begin recording your band's sophomore album in less than a month. Prior to the recording of the band's next album, which would come to be known as “Ride The Lightning”, James had to find a replacement. He tried some of Merciful Fate's amps but nothing was giving him the tone he wanted. He ended up buying a Marshall JMP 2203 head over in Denmark. An old interview with CKLN 88.1FM Radio, James claims the amp was a "French-Made Marshall", but the likely story is that the manual was in French. Marshall did tailor some of their marketing to the Scandinavian and various European markets. Some of them even had different looking backplates. But the amp was, by all accounts, a stock Marshall JMP 2203.

This amp was later modified by Ken Fischer [of Trainwreck Amps] to allow bypassing the preamp, but this wasn’t done until much later. For the recording of Ride The Lightning, James used an old Ibanez Tube Screamer to drive his signal into the amp a little harder, trying to replicate what the Jose Arredondo extra gain stage mod did for him. Hetfield is also reported to have used a Mesa Boogie Mark II as well.

The band recorded Ride The Lightning between February 20, 1984 and March 14, 1984. The tones on the record speak for themselves. On Master of Puppets, Kirk and James started using Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ that were allegedly slaved into the Marshalls used on Ride The Lightning. During The recording of the Black Album, Bob Rock and James Hetfield both got new Jose Modded Marshalls. According to James, Kirk also had one in the works, but Jose passed away before it was complete.

The theft of such a pivotal piece of gear during such a formative time in Metallica's history could have easily derailed a committed group of kids. At the time, James was uneasy about the idea of being singing and playing guitar. In fact, they had asked John Bush to front the band prior to the recording of "Ride The Lightning". Going into the studio with a new producer [Flemming Rasmussen] who had worked with Rainbow must have been somewhat intimidating and going in with a different gear setup than you're used to certainly doesn’t boost the confidence. Whatever chemistry was at play during the recording of Lightning must have worked because Rasmussen stayed on for the recording of "Master of Puppets" and "…And Justice For All". The rest, as they say, is history…

You know who wants you to believe the amp is that level of important?


PEOPLE WHO BUILD AND SELL AMPLIFIERS.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Exactly my thoughts. Gotta relieve that tension somehow.

 

[taracatac]

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was the mark III on the black album. Just watch this shootout. To me, the mark III nails the black album tone the most out of all of them. The rest of the amps all come close, but sound a little off in one way or another. The Mark III sounds like what I hear on the record. It has a low end fullness and punch that the others are lacking.

Any of the Mesa's sound pretty close. The bigger factor in getting THE sound is the cab/mic and mic placement.