1991 Ernie ball music man EVH for 10K

Most people leave jobs because of their manager or boss, rarely because of the job itself.

Maybe an age thing as well. I'd imagine some of us are old enough to have either been in one of those positions where you just stayed with a company for 20-30 years, or at least had parents that did. Younger people think that job hopping every two years (or less) is the norm, and the only way to get ahead. Might depend on the industry as well.

I have a hard time leaving a job I'm comfortable in, as chasing the absolute highest dollar possible has never been my goal. If I can find something with a decent work/life balance and remains interesting, then I'm okay sticking around. I don't expect any company loyalty though. Mine just moved the entire manufacturing side of the business to another state to save money, and I have to wonder what that will mean for engineering as well.
 
Younger people think that job hopping every two years (or less) is the norm, and the only way to get ahead
It is the new normal, and sometimes it is the only way to get ahead as companies hire from outside rather than promote from within and pay people more. The gig/freelance world struggles even more. There's a reason the millenials are the way they are - snarky, jaded, disdainful of "boomers" (of which I apparently am, despite being a 1974 Gen Xer). The economy is not their friend, and everything is a dumpster fire.

They're pissed and they have every right and reason to be.
 
I'm in no mans land (born in 65). I've raised 2 millennials and "boomers" aren't their problem. They blame everyone but themselves for their woes despite all of the opportunities offered them.
 
I'm in no mans land (born in 65). I've raised 2 millennials and "boomers" aren't their problem. They blame everyone but themselves for their woes despite all of the opportunities offered them.
Ok.

I’ve been working shoulder to s with the people you’re disparaging and your perspective about opportunities is not their reality. Their reality is crippling student debt, skyrocketed rents and mortgage costs (NOT talking APR here I’m talking price per square foot), no ability to save substantial amounts of money for downpayment on a house because starting salaries coming out of school are dogshit vs the realized inflation rate vs. 40 years ago, and it’s very difficult to build decent credit score under those conditions. The economy is trashed right now for them as a cohort. People are forced to live with parents well into their 30’s because the jobs and the money aren’t in the same place. It’s an upside down world where a job at Starbucks is a better prospect than college.

One major problem is just as Mike Rowe described it. College isn’t and shouldn’t be for everyone. The trades are vital and lucrative but the system pushes the ”college or you‘re a piece of shit” message down everyone’s throats.
 
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Ok.

I’ve been working shoulder to s with the people you’re disparaging and your perspective about opportunities is not their reality. Their reality is crippling student debt, skyrocketed rents and mortgage costs (NOT talking APR here I’m talking price per square foot), no ability to save substantial amounts of money for downpayment on a house because starting salaries coming out of school are dogshit vs the realized inflation rate vs. 40 years ago, and it’s very difficult to build decent credit score under those conditions. The economy is trashed right now for them as a cohort. People are forced to live with parents well into their 30’s because the jobs and the money aren’t in the same place. It’s an upside down world where a job at Starbucks is a better prospect than college.

One major problem is just as Mike Rowe described it. College isn’t and shouldn’t be for everyone. The trades are vital and lucrative but the system pushes the ”college or you‘re a piece of shit” message down everyone’s throats.
Good post. Scary post.

I see a handful of problems that give me fear for the future for a lot of us, and I'm well above that age group.
First, even when I was a teen, I never had to be told not to gamble on future earnings being able to pay for debt you take on today, so I don't quite understand that. I don't know any school-age kids, so I don't know if they yet teach basic financial skills in high school. If not, they need to. Learning how to manage money when you're young is vitally important. Knowing to steer clear from a credit card company offering you a $3000 (or whatever) line of credit when you don't even have a job, and realizing they're simply trying to get you addicted, not unlike the drug dealer giving out teasers, is also quite important.

And then you've got the lack of vo-tech in schools, the trades can't find decent help, and the song that has been overplayed to death is, "go to college." I was in the top 5% of my class, college-bound, but instead chose the trades, and I've done well my entire life, earning more than my college-educated friends were, even back then. That tired line has got to change.

There's ways out, but as I see it, the first thing you gotta do is get out of expensive-to-live locales. I empathize with those living with that stress on a daily level. Oh and another item I believe is hurting this younger generation is the globalization of our economy. The disparity between the jobs today and the cost of living for these kids has been made much worse because of the cheaper costs of goods produced overseas. I don't agree with it.

For my part, I try, as much as I can, to hire young kids, even if it means they will cost me more due to training, because I'd rather teach good habits than fix old bad ones, and I know a lot of these kids need to be put on a path to self-sufficiency, and the trades can do just that. I also tell them to keep watch on how the industry changes around us, so they can make smart moves that will help keep them from getting replaced by a machine (which is yet another problem that contributes to this crisis!) Just look at the guy whose only skill he ever learned was running the buffing wheel at a guitar manufacturer, then suddenly lost his job when the company bought a robot, trying to stay competitive with global markets, no less.

No easy solutions, but they're out there.
 
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Ok.

Wasn’t disparaging anyone. Was speaking directly to my experiences with my kids. You aren’t the only one who has worked with them. This group doesn’t live in a vacuum and alll those things affect everyone. The only point I was making is the blaming boomers part. It’s the same as one generation saying the next is going to ruin everything. Spending 150-200k on an education that nets a 35k/yr job is a choice. I’m out.
 
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Spending 150-200k on an education that nets a 35k/yr job is a choice. I’m out.
Firstly that’s not spending its going into debt. Second no one plans to make 35k a year after, that’s just what’s happening.

You’re so adamantly, defiantly ignorant of the landscape that’s evolving around everyone who isn’t you that you think it’s a choice.

So yeah, show yourself out.
 
I think people do have to be selective about college. It's really hard at 18 or 19 to know what you want to do with your life. I couldn't do it. How are you supposed to figure out what you're good at when you've never done anything? Some people know, others don't, but go to college and change majors three times, eventually landing on a BA, and no real job prospects. Even some of the hard sciences can be tough to do anything with unless you pursue even more education, and even then it can be rough.

I went to school late. I had to work for a while after HS before I figured out what I wanted to do, and when I did go to school, I had a plan. Being an older student probably helped in a lot of ways. I guess I could sort of say I wasted my engineering degree, since I went into a different field, but at least I have a piece of paper. I tried to switch later in life, but that didn't work out. Sometimes you really figure out what you want to do too late.
 
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I think people do have to be selective about college. It's really hard at 18 or 19 to know what you want to do with your life. I couldn't do it. How are you supposed to figure out what you're good at when you've never done anything? Some people know, others don't, but go to college and change majors three times, eventually landing on a BA, and no real job prospects. Even some of the hard sciences can be tough to do anything with unless you pursue even more education, and even then it can be rough.

I went to school late. I had to work for a while after HS before I figured out what I wanted to do, and when I did go to school, I had a plan. Being an older student probably helped in a lot of ways. I guess I could sort of say I wasted my engineering degree, since I went into a different field, but at least I have a piece of paper. I tried to switch later in life, but that didn't work out. Sometimes you really figure out what you want to do too late.
My guidance counselor office had us all take a test in I believe 11th grade. There were 100 questions, each with 3 choices. You picked the one you'd least like to do, and the one you'd most want to do. Questions like: A) Take apart a watch to see how it works, B) Plant and tend a vegetable garden, & C) Learn how to fly a plane. They also gave this test to adults who were in careers they enjoyed and were successful at, then matched your answers, and generated a report for you that listed the fields that would be the best fit for you. My results were very accurate compared to what I found out about myself later. This was in the early 80's. If this type of thing doesn't exist any longer, it needs to be brought back.

And what can really help with the financial part, in case you make changes to your course study along the way, is attend Community College for the first 2 years. The cost of a college education is extremely expensive these days, so kids gotta do whatever it takes to reduce those costs!
 
My guidance counselor office had us all take a test in I believe 11th grade. There were 100 questions, each with 3 choices. You picked the one you'd least like to do, and the one you'd most want to do. Questions like: A) Take apart a watch to see how it works, B) Plant and tend a vegetable garden, & C) Learn how to fly a plane. They also gave this test to adults who were in careers they enjoyed and were successful at, then matched your answers, and generated a report for you that listed the fields that would be the best fit for you. My results were very accurate compared to what I found out about myself later. This was in the early 80's. If this type of thing doesn't exist any longer, it needs to be brought back.

The only testing they really did, was an unannounced assembly of all male seniors into the auditorium where they made us all take the ASVAB. I guess it probably helped place some people. I got calls from recruiters for the next six months, but didn't join up.

And what can really help with the financial part, in case you make changes to your course study along the way, is attend Community College for the first 2 years. The cost of a college education is extremely expensive these days, so kids gotta do whatever it takes to reduce those costs!

That's pretty much what I did. At the time, VA Tech had a transfer guide, that would tell you what the accredited CCs in VA had that would transfer directly into engineering. Take the 201 and 202 chemistry classes, not the 101 and 102 classes, that sort of thing. Taking these calculus classes. I pretty much stuck to the list, only taking a few others for fun. At the time, the CC was maybe a tenth the cost per credit hour.

Accredited or not though, I learned it wasn't looked at favorably by some graduate education committees later on. They really hated classes that were taken as online or remote classes. I didn't have any, but I know some people that had to go back and retake in person classes for some schools they wanted to get into.
 
Even some of the hard sciences can be tough to do anything with unless you pursue even more education, and even then it can be rough.
This is true. My B.S. in Genetics/Developmental Biology is basically a GED in any other field. It qualifies me to either a - wash glass in a lab (a “technician”), or b - keep going to school. In that world, until you’re a post-doctoral researcher/adjunct professor (either way you’re a department chair’s grant-writing bitch) you’re basically not even a real person.
 
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I got calls from recruiters for the next six months, but didn't join up.
It was voluntary but a lot of us took the ASVAB anyway just out of curiosity. The Navy kept calling for years trying to get me to go to enlist and go to nuclear power school. I didn’t want to be essentially in a steel pipe under 1,200 next to a nuclear reactor. Eff that.
 
It was voluntary but a lot of us took the ASVAB anyway just out of curiosity. The Navy kept calling for years trying to get me to go to enlist and go to nuclear power school. I didn’t want to be essentially in a steel pipe under 1,200 next to a nuclear reactor. Eff that.

That's what I got calls about as well. Nuclear engineering. They even offered to send me out for a week on a ship so I could see what life was like. I was just not in a military career frame of mind coming out of HS. I wasn't in a college frame of mind either. I just want to be free and on my own for a while.
 
This is true. My B.S. in Genetics/Developmental Biology is basically a GED in any other field. It qualifies me to either a - wash glass in a lab (a “technician”), or b - keep going to school. In that world, until you’re a post-doctoral researcher/adjunct professor (either way you’re a department chair’s grant-writing bitch) you’re basically not even a real person.

My last gf had a B.S. in chemistry, and worked in a research lab, but spent a lot of the day doing lab chores, pipeting samples, western blots, etc. It was a pretty good job for years, but her lab eventually lost their grant, and she had a tough time. Eventually she got a job processing evidence at a police department, but we weren't together at the time.

It really sucks about the sciences, because you find some of the most passionate people in those fields, but most get treated like shit. I have all but a couple of classes for a B.S. in biochem. I'm completely fascinated by all of it, but it didn't make sense for me to keep going.
 
It really sucks about the sciences, because you find some of the most passionate people in those fields, but most get treated like shit.
The stark truth is that the passion and idealism is absurdly easily exploited. Just ask any teacher - or just look at their paystub.
 
How does one change the title of this original thread? This was just about the used market and not about politics/job market
 
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What does one even call this thread? it started as this incredible listing on reverb that turned into some diatribe about jobs.
TBH,I don't have it in me right now to read back through the thread to come up with a pithy summary, sorry, you're on your own :) Worst case, it has a title, and more than one probably applies to some extent, so.

But I feel your pain...
 
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