Wish Wish please - Mimic (Mimiq) Block

strabes said:
Relative to the Enhancer block the Pitch block uses a ton of DSP, and the LFO Pitch Block on the petrucci rig preset just sounds like a stereo chorus/vibrato to me. It also lacks any Haas effect so it's not as wide as classic mode on the enhancer block, let alone Mimiq's 1 dub mode. Over the years I've tried all the built-in widening tricks multiple times and I can't find or build anything as wide as Mimiq. However I'm content for the time being with the enhancer classic mode because of the pretty good width and low DSP usage, though a Mimiq-style mode would be a welcome addition for even greater width / faux double tracking.
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I don't know where people got the idea the stereo effect in the Petrucci preset is a Mimiq effect. It's a pleasing chorus, but it's nothing like a Mimiq.
 
GlennO said:
I don't know where people got the idea the stereo effect in the Petrucci preset is a Mimiq effect. It's a pleasing chorus, but it's nothing like a Mimiq.
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It mentions so in the Presets wiki or on Cooper's vids to be a good ballpark emulation, IIRC. I hope you are correct though, and the real thing is how much better? Or just different?

"083 - PETRUCCI RIG | PETRUCCI RIG FM9 | PETRUCCI RIG FM3 — John Petrucci's (Dream Theater) signature sound, using the Mesa/Boogie JP-2C. Axe-Fx and FM9: Input 3 facilitates the use of a piezo-equipped guitar. An LFO-controlled Pitch block reproduces the effect of a TC Mimiq pedal (double tracking)." [a.o.]
 
Brewce said:
It mentions so in the Presets wiki or on Cooper's vids to be a good ballpark emulation, IIRC. I hope you are correct though, and the real thing is how much better? Or just different?

"083 - PETRUCCI RIG | PETRUCCI RIG FM9 | PETRUCCI RIG FM3 — John Petrucci's (Dream Theater) signature sound, using the Mesa/Boogie JP-2C. Axe-Fx and FM9: Input 3 facilitates the use of a piezo-equipped guitar. An LFO-controlled Pitch block reproduces the effect of a TC Mimiq pedal (double tracking)." [a.o.]
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I don't known if I'd call a Mimiq "better", but it's different than the effect in the preset. Strabes is right, the effect in the preset is a chorus. The Mimiq uses multiple delays with shifting times and varying attack dynamics. The trick in the Mimiq is the delay shifts only occur upon note attack. It's not perfect, but it emulates what you get when you double track guitars when recording.

Post #3 above has a link to some more details, along with a demonstration of how this might be achieved in an AxeFX. For a proper double tracking effect ala a Mimiq though, it would require FAS to provide a new kind of effect.

Here's the link to a post where I created a preset to demonstrate the Mimiq technique in an Axe-FX. It discusses the design and the challenges:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/doubler-vs-enhancer.186563/#post-2309221
 
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Brewce said:
the real thing is how much better? Or just different?
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Not better, IMO.

The Mimic is a copy of a Line 6 spatializer (invented by Fred Thordendal IIRC). It uses thresholds to trigger crossfade between multiple random delay lines to create a pseudo-random haas effect. It seems like a cool idea, but having played with one, I did not love it. You get these attention grabbing "nodes" when a shorter time locks in -- Look there! WAIT, look THERE! -- though these do at least have the "benefit" of starting and stopping in a way that is at least rhythmically aligned with what you are playing. It isn't really like real double tracking. You can tweak to minimize this, but once you hear what it's doing, it becomes annoying.

I built one in the Axe-Fx where I used envelope detection to STEP through a sequence of to 32 "random" steps. With so many steps, you'll never know it isn't random. Technically, it glides instead of crossfading, but this isn't problematic for me. I honestly don't use it anyway. To me, "right-dialed" chorus, detuner, enhancer, or even just delay achieves a comparable musical effect.
 
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yek said:
Cooper Carter's simulated MIMIQ can be found in the factory Petrucci preset. Also watch his recent videos:



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Doesn’t come even close to what the Mimiq does. This is why Petrucci is still using the Mimiq in his multi-thousand dollar rack. Try the fake mimiq block live and you will never do that again.
 
Admin M@ said:
Not better, IMO.

The Mimic is a copy of a Line 6 spatializer (invented by Fred Thordendal IIRC). It uses thresholds to trigger crossfade between multiple random delay lines to create a pseudo-random haas effect. It seems like a cool idea, but having played with one, I did not love it. You get these attention grabbing "nodes" when a shorter time locks in -- Look there! WAIT, look THERE! -- though these do at least have the "benefit" of starting and stopping in a way that is at least rhythmically aligned with what you are playing. It isn't really like real double tracking. You can tweak to minimize this, but once you hear what it's doing, it becomes annoying.

I built one in the Axe-Fx where I used envelope detection to STEP through a sequence of to 32 "random" steps. With so many steps, you'll never know it isn't random. Technically, it glides instead of crossfading, but this isn't problematic for me. I honestly don't use it anyway. To me, "right-dialed" chorus, detuner, enhancer, or even just delay achieves a comparable musical effect.
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So you want to say, you already got a Mimiq-simulation in the Axefx working and it‘s not in the Axefx as a block, because you did not like it?
What about the Axefx-users (like me and xxxxx others) , who LIKE , what the real Mimiq does?
 
Valhallir said:
This is why Petrucci is still using the Mimiq in his multi-thousand dollar rack.
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To be fair, John is also a TC Electronic endorser.

The same could say about his signature amp. It’s in the Axe-FX, yet he still uses and endorses the physical amp.
 
ruso said:
To be fair, John is also a TC Electronic endorser.

The same could say about his signature amp. It’s in the Axe-FX, yet he still uses and endorses the physical amp.
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Knowing now, that it would already be possible to get a mimiq block done in the Axefx, doesn't make it easier for me. But, then again…who cares.
 
Valhallir said:
So you want to say, you already got a Mimiq-simulation in the Axefx working and it‘s not in the Axefx as a block, because you did not like it?
What about the Axefx-users (like me and xxxxx others) , who LIKE , what the real Mimiq does?
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I didn't read what Matt wrote to mean he created a block. I think his post indicated that he used some fancy controller manipulation to achieve a similar effect...
 
strabes said:
Relative to the Enhancer block the Pitch block uses a ton of DSP, and the LFO Pitch Block on the petrucci rig preset just sounds like a stereo chorus/vibrato to me. It also lacks any Haas effect so it's not as wide as classic mode on the enhancer block, let alone Mimiq's 1 dub mode. Over the years I've tried all the built-in widening tricks multiple times and I can't find or build anything as wide as Mimiq. However I'm content for the time being with the enhancer classic mode because of the decent width and low DSP usage, though a Mimiq-style mode would be a welcome addition for even greater width / faux double tracking.
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I used the Enhancer block "back in the day", but sounds like maybe I should take it for another spin :)
 
sixtystring said:
I used the Enhancer block "back in the day", but sounds like maybe I should take it for another spin :)
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It’s a great tool, classic mode is always on when I’m playing live. Pushes my 2 hard panned amps further out of the center of my IEM mix, makes it easier to hear myself and everything else.
 
strabes said:
It’s a great tool, classic mode is always on when I’m playing live. Pushes my 2 hard panned amps further out of the center of my IEM mix, makes it easier to hear myself and everything else.
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does Classic mode have any summing issues? most places i play i just tell FOH that the guitars are stereo (and provide both tails), but who knows what they do from there.
 
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