AI generated music has taken a huge leap

[wesleyamltd]

Making or playing music should be a fun, personal experience.

AI is the natural evolution of technology and it has affected all forms of entertainment.

Deep Fake, Chat GPT, Virtual “Friends” and Music.

Honestly, none of this matters because everything has been done already in one form or another, and we’re all just trying find where we fit into it somewhere.

After all there’s nothing like the dulcet tones generated by the cold precision of our AI masters.

 

[skolacki]

Humanity sprinting headlong into unchecked technological advancement has ever been the status quo. Those who command the resulting tools survive.

So the question isn't "how do we stop AI," it's "how do we harness it?" How do we maximize its utility to the many instead of the few?

IOW, AI is not going to replace you; someone using AI will.

Being old has some advantages and missing what might be coming is one of them.

 

[zappafranco]

The following is just the very narrow view of a hobby bedroom producer. I see also the many problems which come with AI generated music, but I wouldn't mind to have a MIDI AI Tool where you throw in a baseline or a melody or a basic chord progression and the Tool generates a beautiful customizable Rock/ProgRock/Fusion or whatever MIDI arrangement out of this. I play mainly to more or less self produced backing tracks. I still want to be able to play as a human being my guitar to those backing tracks. It would be rather absurd if I would just sit in front of the computer and let the AI do everything including the guitar playing, but it can be very time consuming to find the right sound for an instrument, the right drum/bass pattern for a certain track etc. if you don't want or are not able to do everything on your own. I don't know where all this will lead to. On the one hand it seems scary that in not such a distant future a person who has only very basic music knowledge will be able to produce with AI a complete soundtrack for a film, on the other if AI helps you to be a more creative person...

 

[Will Chen]

IOW, AI is not going to replace you; someone using AI will.

This is both true and false. One the one hand, in the short term anyway, there will be a human hand at the helm. However, in office settings for example a single person with AI assistance will be able to replace an entire department of traditional jobs. ESPN and Sports Illustrated laid off large portions of their staff and backfilled those spots with AI. We are very, very close to the ability of an AI to generated a feature length animated film based on an AI generated script with an AI generated score prompted by 1 person, a process that requires 500 people pre AI accomplished by 1.

I'm not suggesting this is going to be world ending but it will be a huge paradigm shift for which a great many the transition will not be smooth nor easy. Yes, as always it's adapt or die but considered how America has focused on a shift to a more service based economy over the past 30 years and now there's an emerging technology to largely automate all those services...again anyone not concerned about AI across really all industries is willfully (or maybe ignorantly) turning their head.

 

[Admin M@]

If anything, I feel that this elevates the importance of the human aspects of music.

 

[Will Chen]

I think Mr. Carter pretty much sums it up. I've been thinking about what practical things could be done to check the "headlong into unchecked..." part. I see there is legislation in draft, in the US and EU particularly, about the limiting or controlling the source material used to train the models. To me, the ease of access to the source training material at a massive scale is the root of it. ChatGPT wasn't profoundly new as a LLM method, the enormous training data set was what set it apart and showed what it could do. So, is better control of access to source material the way to get a handle on it? Opt-in required for all training data? Maybe once someone infringes on a power like Taylor Swift and she has standing in court, she might crush it with her influence and legal army. But if the labels and copywright holders are complicit, then I guess it's open-season.

The general problem here at some point here is defining the difference between "training" an AI and the human experience. Clearly, I can listen to a bunch of Taylor Swift songs and then write a song being heavily inspired by her. What's the real difference here between an AI listening to a bunch of Taylor Swift songs and then writing a song heavily inspired by her? As much as the music industry is trying to change the very nature of copyright, no one can really own an idea. And this also presumes everyone will act in good faith which I'd argue is the first step where things fall apart. For example, I can use an AI to write and produce a Taylor Swift adjacent catalog and just put my name on it.

 

[skolacki]

The following is just the very narrow view of a hobby bedroom producer. I see also the many problems which come with AI generated music, but I wouldn't mind to have a MIDI AI Tool where you throw in a baseline or a melody or a basic chord progression and the Tool generates a beautiful customizable Rock/ProgRock/Fusion or whatever MIDI arrangement out of this. I play mainly to more or less self produced backing tracks. I still want to be able to play as a human being my guitar to those backing tracks. It would be rather absurd if I would just sit in front of the computer and let the AI do everything including the guitar playing, but it can be very time consuming to find the right sound for an instrument, the right drum/bass pattern for a certain track etc. if you don't want or are not able to do everything on your own. I don't know where all this will lead to. On the one hand it seems scary that in not such a distant future a person who has only very basic music knowledge will be able to produce with AI a complete soundtrack for a film, on the other if AI helps you to be a more creative person...

It will get to the point where the AI can adapt, change tempos, keys, progressions on the fly depending on what you’re playing. Like an instant jam band. It would be a lot of fun to have something like that. It will without a doubt replace a lot of musicians. I can see a band with 1 or 2 players and the AI filling it out. Some dancers. AI visuals and lighting. It could turn into a big thing. Stadiums.

 

[Chromatizm]

What's the real difference here between an AI listening to a bunch of Taylor Swift songs and then writing a song heavily inspired by her?

Easy, really.
AI will have no idea if a song is good or not. Everyone and their mother writes songs "in style of TS", and where are they. There is more to a song then drums, bass, guitar and vocal. Person who creates a song listens to it and make decision to change/add/remove and if something's ready or not. A skill not yet even raised as something AI can/will be able to do, especially when you apply emotional aspect.
AI doesn't have tools to listen and understand if what it creates is any good.

I yet to see a single AI-generated picture, clip or sound which would move me in any way other than "this is crazy, interesting and I would like to never see/hear this again". So there will be jobs for people to listen to all this shit and try to find diamonds within an insanely huge pile, given how much AI can generate within a split second.

 

[tealtonerick]

I think of the AI stuff as just a hand tool. Sure, you can be lazy and let fully automated tools do ALL the work for you. But AI's real power is in it's ability help you analyze your own composition so that you can learn the why and how rhythmic, harmonic and melodic progressions and transitions work together or don't as you get your own ideas about how to proceed. It just helps to let the tool do the heavy lifting for when you get stuck by your own lack of theory understanding. You pose certain very focused questions to it to fill in your knowledge and experience more quickly. It really helps to use it to limit the loss of your own inspiration and articulation over time instead of just letting it take over completely, just like any good hand tool would as you gain skill with its usage.

 

[Will Chen]

Easy, really.
AI will have no idea if a song is good or not. Everyone and their mother writes songs "in style of TS", and where are they. There is more to a song then drums, bass, guitar and vocal. Person who creates a song listens to it and make decision to change/add/remove and if something's ready or not. A skill not yet even raised as something AI can/will be able to do, especially when you apply emotional aspect.
AI doesn't have tools to listen and understand if what it creates is any good.

I yet to see a single AI-generated picture, clip or sound which would move me in any way other than "this is crazy, interesting and I would like to never see/hear this again". So there will be jobs for people to listen to all this shit and try to find diamonds within an insanely huge pile, given how much AI can generate within a split second.

A person ultimately doesn't know if a song is going to be a hit or not (if that's what you mean by good) all those decisions are what's being replaced. If the goal is to sound like X, the AI is going to make similar choices as if a person wanted to sound like X especially if they are looking to mimic the same target.

In terms of emotional impact...I'd argue you're missing the point here. The endgame here isn't some type of gatekeeper finding the correct AI work to deliver to the masses, it's the AI knowing who you are and how to craft something specifically to your tastes. An extension of the increasing isolation that we have embraced with the internet and social media era we are in. In terms of art/literature/movies/music, the long game is removing the necessity of the entire industry and allow a user to tailor content 100% to their desires. Certainly there will be a transition period, perhaps even a very long one, but I foresee a future where a Spotify/Youtube/Netflix algorithm isn't building you playlists of artist's content, but generating it on the fly based on user interest or even your current mood.

 

[Chromatizm]

A person ultimately doesn't know if a song is going to be a hit or not (if that's what you mean by good) all those decisions are what's being replaced

Yes, he doesn't know if it will be a hit or not, but if it's an experienced person with good ears or just a talented block or gal, he/she will do the "tuning" until satisfied. AI will not do anything like that unless you tell him "change something". And then it will generate something new and hope I will like it, because it can't listen to it and understand if it's any good.
And I will not listen to what it generated and then ask to fix a second verse, because.. why would I? What's the point? Will it generate a new Birds of Fire simply because it has listened to whole McLaughlin's discography and know all his moves? How many verses I'd need it to fix before it's good? Is it this simple - learn the style of $Name and generate a hit or groundbreaking album? I doubt that.

AI is going to make similar choices as if a person wanted to sound like X especially if they are looking to mimic the same target.

Do you listen to anybody who's trying to pretend to be anyone else? I know I don't, I try to avoid copycats and do my best not to copy someone else's sound.
You like original music, don't you? I'm speculating, of course, but why in a world would you like to hear anything "similar" to TS or anyone else? If anything, I like to hear same old songs by my favorite artists, all of them quite original.

AI knowing who you are and how to craft something specifically to your tastes

This seems to be where we see the things differently. My musical tastes are extremely open and I know exactly what I'd like to listen at the moment, so why ask it to "generate" something? What, it will generate me amazing KNOWER or Collier-like tunes? It won't because of the points above. It doesn't know good from bad.
And if I'm in a different mood today, it will release for me personally never heard (because never written and recorded) Allan Holdsworth tunes?
Why in a world would I like to hear that? Just... why? Where's the value? And again - how will it know if what it generated is any good? It will not. So after a couple tries I will just stop trying, simply because there is no point in that, and will go back to listen to what people have carefully crafted while trying not to sound like anyone else.

 

[Will Chen]

Yes, he doesn't know if it will be a hit or not, but if it's an experienced person with good ears or just a talented block or gal, he/she will do the "tuning" until satisfied. AI will not do anything like that unless you tell him "change something". And then it will generate something new and hope I will like it, because it can't listen to it and understand if it's any good.
And I will not listen to what it generated and then ask to fix a second verse, because.. why would I? What's the point? Will it generate a new Birds of Fire simply because it has listened to whole McLaughlin's discography and know all his moves? How many verses I'd need it to fix before it's good? Is it this simple - learn the style of $Name and generate a hit or groundbreaking album? I doubt that.

Do you listen to anybody who's trying to pretend to be anyone else? I know I don't, I try to avoid copycats and do my best not to copy someone else's sound.
You like original music, don't you? I'm speculating, of course, but why in a world would you like to hear anything "similar" to TS or anyone else? If anything, I like to hear same old songs by my favorite artists, all of them quite original.

This seems to be where we see the things differently. My musical tastes are extremely open and I know exactly what I'd like to listen at the moment, so why ask it to "generate" something? What, it will generate me amazing KNOWER or Collier-like tunes? It won't because of the points above. It doesn't know good from bad.
And if I'm in a different mood today, it will release for me personally never heard (because never written and recorded) Allan Holdsworth tunes?
Why in a world would I like to hear that? Just... why? Where's the value? And again - how will it know if what it generated is any good? It will not. So after a couple tries I will just stop trying, simply because there is no point in that, and will go back to listen to what people have carefully crafted while trying not to sound like anyone else.

I understand everything you are saying, and agree with much of it. I'm just coming to a different conclusion. History is full of people feeling so confident that their job is so unique and important that they could never be replaced who were left behind by automation.

I'm using Swift specifically as an example, but think bigger. All musicians are standing on the shoulders of what came before them. We all take inspiration from a million different places and it gets put into a blender and comes back out. An AI in theory could more or less ingest all music ever recorded and be able to generate genre specific music of really any type. Are you aware of the AI Drake/Weekend song that went viral? To be clear we are in the middle of an era where sampling is en vogue in a huge way. So yes, large portions of the population are 100% fine with listening to music which is very derivative/familiar with a small twist.

In theory I of course don't want this to happen and have no interest in supporting it. I listen to everything as well, from classical to electronica and everything in between, in fact bizarre you mention KNOWER and Jacob Collier as I've been listening to both a ton lately (Collier's latest album on as I type this) despite instrumental music being my typical genre of choice. But in reality, I feel it's going to happen it's simply a matter of when. Will it end human music/art? Doubtful, but it very well may make it an impossibility for anyone to do it professionally.

 

[∞Fractals]

One thing is for certain… AI will never change the reason I play music.

I cannot speak for what audiences will bear for entertainment however.

 

[Jason Scott]

The endgame here isn't some type of gatekeeper finding the correct AI work to deliver to the masses, it's the AI knowing who you are and how to craft something specifically to your tastes. An extension of the increasing isolation that we have embraced with the internet and social media era we are in. In terms of art/literature/movies/music, the long game is removing the necessity of the entire industry and allow a user to tailor content 100% to their desires. Certainly there will be a transition period, perhaps even a very long one, but I foresee a future where a Spotify/Youtube/Netflix algorithm isn't building you playlists of artist's content, but generating it on the fly based on user interest or even your current mood.

This has also been my tentative prediction. I foresee a future where entertainment is entirely personalized to a user's tastes and preferences. Back in the day, commonly shared communal experiences were the norm. There were only a few TV stations and everyone was familiar with the programming on them. The same was true for radio. Society has been gradually shifting away from that to more personalized experiences.

 

[Chromatizm]

Sorry for long post This topic is very interesting to me.

Are you aware of the AI Drake/Weekend song that went viral?

Quite interesting story, thanks for sharing!
But I must confess that for the life of me I'm not able to understand where one Drake's song ends and another starts.
I believe the only reason this got viral is because of Drake's name on it, so many fans immediately jumped on the hype train - not for the quality of its music. Sorry for even saying that but... I really think so.
Thought I must admit the bass riff is solid. I'm sure AI will rock in this style of music - repetitive and simple, not much efforts invested, no serious/interesting theory concepts or anything behind it.
It's all about the person, all about the guy who made an icon out of himself. It's basically the cult of personality right here, for whatever reason it's started. AI will not take his jobs simply because it can generate very similar song. Not many will listen to it if you remove "Drake" from the title. Name what made this viral. Not the music. The song itself is... average, to put it mildly. Not peak Dre D, not even close, IMO.

in fact bizarre you mention KNOWER and Jacob Collier as I've been listening to both a ton lately (Collier's latest album on as I type this)

SAME
Like two weeks of Knower almost non-stop plus mixing in Collier since the release. Absolutely mind-blowing stuff!

History is full of people feeling so confident that they're job is so unique and important that they could never be replaced who were left behind by automation

Oh, that's absolutely not the point I'm trying to express here.
But yes, there is no doubt SOMEONE will need to sort everything AI generates to find actual jems here. Yes, you can basically limit it only to high-quality stuff - like ask AI to generate a song but use commercially available libraries, and you'll get incredibly played (by humans) result simply by mixing stuff according to some rules. But someone will need to listen to it and make something of the result. Like that Drake song that was also "curated" by the person who put it on Internet.
The rest will use it to create songs more quickly and more, let's say, accurately, professionally sounding. So the role of the professional will most likely increase - actually good musicians will find a way how to be better than the rest by using the tools in creative ways.
And amateurs might get their shot to glory - just as many had since recording at home became available to literally everyone.

And you know what? Just one other thought. Again, a pure speculation, but what is not speculation here?
We all know how easy it is to understand "digital vs analog" when you see what you are playing, right? Pretty much everyone easily hears the difference between Fender Custom Shop and chinese replica when they see them. It's the "blind test" where suddenly many "golden ears" cannot understand if this is a genuine early Plexi in mint condition or say Fractal, and for the good reason.
Same - or I's say much worse - fate will fall upon AI. Right now it's everyone's favorite toy. Once people understand there is no real "I" behind this, they will not be able not to think it's all fake. Right now it's all fun and games, but people will still go look for a real person to follow.

 

[Will Chen]

We all know how easy it is to understand "digital vs analog" when you see what you are playing, right?

Totally off topic, but I caught this the other day. Mark Barton, a pioneer in analog synthesis, specifically in early electronic drum devices, has written a paper "Why Modern Digital Synthesis Is More Analog Than Analog". Interesting to see the age old digital vs modeling discussion in the synth world where one of the innovators was gone full digital and him defending his stance. Many of the positions of both guys directly translate to the the guitar world as well. Worth a background listen if you've got absolutely nothing better to be do.

 

[Jason Scott]

I believe the only reason this got viral is because of Drake's name on it, so many fans immediately jumped on the hype train - not for the quality of its music. Sorry for even saying that but... I really think so.

If that's the case, do you think anyone can cover a Drake song and go viral, regardless of quality?

Once people understand there is no real "I" behind this, they will not be able not to think it's all fake.

This is just my opinion, but I honestly don't think most people who use AI care.

 

[zappafranco]

It will get to the point where the AI can adapt, change tempos, keys, progressions on the fly depending on what you’re playing. Like an instant jam band. It would be a lot of fun to have something like that. It will without a doubt replace a lot of musicians. I can see a band with 1 or 2 players and the AI filling it out. Some dancers. AI visuals and lighting. It could turn into a big thing. Stadiums.

You can ad to that Holograms - think of the Zappa Hologram Tour or Abba - an there you have it ;-) Plastic people, plastic music...

 

[zappafranco]

Yes, he doesn't know if it will be a hit or not, but if it's an experienced person with good ears or just a talented block or gal, he/she will do the "tuning" until satisfied. AI will not do anything like that unless you tell him "change something". And then it will generate something new and hope I will like it, because it can't listen to it and understand if it's any good.
And I will not listen to what it generated and then ask to fix a second verse, because.. why would I? What's the point? Will it generate a new Birds of Fire simply because it has listened to whole McLaughlin's discography and know all his moves? How many verses I'd need it to fix before it's good? Is it this simple - learn the style of $Name and generate a hit or groundbreaking album? I doubt that.

Do you listen to anybody who's trying to pretend to be anyone else? I know I don't, I try to avoid copycats and do my best not to copy someone else's sound.
You like original music, don't you? I'm speculating, of course, but why in a world would you like to hear anything "similar" to TS or anyone else? If anything, I like to hear same old songs by my favorite artists, all of them quite original.

This seems to be where we see the things differently. My musical tastes are extremely open and I know exactly what I'd like to listen at the moment, so why ask it to "generate" something? What, it will generate me amazing KNOWER or Collier-like tunes? It won't because of the points above. It doesn't know good from bad.
And if I'm in a different mood today, it will release for me personally never heard (because never written and recorded) Allan Holdsworth tunes?
Why in a world would I like to hear that? Just... why? Where's the value? And again - how will it know if what it generated is any good? It will not. So after a couple tries I will just stop trying, simply because there is no point in that, and will go back to listen to what people have carefully crafted while trying not to sound like anyone else.

If you know an AI Tool which generates Birds of Fire then please let me know ,-) Zappa, McLaughlin and Holdsworth are my favorites.

 

[Chromatizm]

that's the case, do you think anyone can cover a Drake song and go viral, regardless of quality?

I honestly think many will get same if not better results and higher number of views of they put up something like this with AI voice only and put Drake in the title, yes.
I mean I'd rather listen to Finneas generating Drake than Ai or Drake himself. I don't mean to be rude or anything here, just my pov on this. I have nothing again Drake, not at all, just can't listen to his music and enjoy it.